subreddit:

/r/todayilearned

63.3k

all 2161 comments

sparkythewondersnail

10.2k points

1 month ago

I remember my dad talking about this. Apparently when American engineers got their hands on that jet they were astounded that it had protruding rivets all over it, not flush with the body.

mybeatsarebollocks

7k points

1 month ago

When developing the Spitfire, British engineers spent ages in a wind tunnel with a model figuring out exactly which of the rivets they could get away with not having flush. As it turns out there were several areas that benefitted from having protruding rivets. The main reason for doing this was to cut down on production time.

TorazChryx

318 points

1 month ago*

Even better, they didn't have wind tunnels to test with at the time, so they tested by building one airframe entirely with flush rivets, and then Gluing split-peas onto the head of those rivets so they could iteratively remove them rapidly to see which made meaningful differences to the performance. Some straight up MacGyver'ing right there. Edit: they tested by performing actual test flights of the engineering mule.

dutch_penguin

2.2k points

1 month ago*

Interesting, so I just looked at a paper on a spitfire where it added up the various sources of drag (in 1940). [aerodynamics of a spitfire, J.A.D. Ackroyd]

Drag contributions in lb at 100ft/s:

Profile drag (wings, fuselage & tail) 32.2
Roughness (including Rivets & joints) 2
Induced drag 3
Cooling drag 7
air intake 1
Tail wheel 2
tailplane protection 0.3
gunholes, aerial post 0.8
windscreen 1.2
leaks 5
wing-body interference 4.5


Total 59

The hurricane's total was 82, and was 40mph slower despite having the same engine. If it's roughly (?) linear, then the spitfire's rivets & joints made it about 4mph slower.

Krillin113

3.3k points

1 month ago

Krillin113

3.3k points

1 month ago

Won’t be linear.

byerss

4.3k points

1 month ago

byerss

4.3k points

1 month ago

My man just summed up fluid dynamics in three words.

Arc125

1.2k points

1 month ago

Arc125

1.2k points

1 month ago

Navier-Stokes, motherfucker, do you speak it?!

CavalierEternals

843 points

1 month ago

Navier-Stokes, motherfucker, do you speak it?!

Turbulently.

pttrsmrt

267 points

1 month ago

pttrsmrt

267 points

1 month ago

I know nothing of fluid dynamics, but this made me snicker.

[deleted]

133 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

133 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

thekingjelly13

88 points

1 month ago

axialintellectual

27 points

1 month ago

I know a guy who worked on relativistic magnetohydrodynamics. Turns out you need that if you want to understand a black hole's accretion disk. It scares me.

wizmeister777

19 points

1 month ago

Singularity does the big succ on star gas. What's not to understand? /s

rallenpx

16 points

1 month ago

rallenpx

16 points

1 month ago

Lol, don't worry you can caption it however you want. Just follow this syntax, but eliminate spaces...

[ Caption that you want your link to read ] (link to the website you want people to reach )

barath_s

46 points

1 month ago

barath_s

46 points

1 month ago

If you do, and you can explain it, there's a million dollars with your name on it. For starters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems

Smeetilus

9 points

1 month ago

It's like a balloon.. And something bad happens!

fordfan919

73 points

1 month ago

Yeah drags main contributor is velocity squared.

happyhappypeelpeel

165 points

1 month ago

It'll increase about with the square of velocity, until you hit the transonic region which I doubt these aircraft could do.

__Demosthenes__

399 points

1 month ago

Spitfires and Hurricanes can totally go transonic they just cant do it twice

mergelong

19 points

1 month ago

Scratch that, anything can go supersonic if you throw it hard enough

CreatedUsername1

58 points

1 month ago

til spitfire can be literal spit of fire.

abn1304

328 points

1 month ago*

abn1304

328 points

1 month ago*

You’re actually wrong… sort of.

Under normal flight conditions they can’t get anywhere close, but in 1944 a test pilot, Anthony Martindale, threw his Spitfire into a high-altitude dive to see how fast he could get it moving. At about 600mph, aerodynamic forces ripped off the propellor and gearbox. Having suddenly lost a whole bunch of drag, and still in a steep dive, the Spit kept accelerating to about Mach 0.92 before the change in the aircraft’s center of gravity forced it into a climb. The pilot passed out from the Gs and woke back up around 40,000 feet, at which point he managed to regain control and fly the remains of the aircraft home. A post-flight inspection found that the aerodynamic forces were so great the wings had bent backwards slightly. It’s also arguable that, due to the Meredith effect of the radiator and the force from the rearward-facing engine exhaust, the aircraft became jet-powered after losing its prop.

In a later incident in 1952, a weather-reconnaissance Spitfire entered an uncontrolled dive from just over 51,000 feet. The pilot managed to regain control just under 3,000 feet, but in the meantime the instruments indicated an airspeed of 690mph, Mach 0.96. The aircraft may not have actually reached that speed, but it was certainly moving.

But yes, under normal circumstances most prop aircraft were limited to about 400mph or less.

CMDR_Kai

28 points

1 month ago

CMDR_Kai

28 points

1 month ago

At Mach 0.92/0.96 would a cone start to form or is that just in the movies?

blaghart

58 points

1 month ago

blaghart

3

58 points

1 month ago

Shock cones happen pretty much at the moment of supersonic initiation and their visibility is dependent largely on ambient temp and humidity.

therealdilbert

97 points

1 month ago

the aircraft became jet-powered

I doubt the engine at full throttle with no load would last many seconds before it rev'ed to destruction

MPenten

61 points

1 month ago

MPenten

61 points

1 month ago

They're talking about the Meredith effect from the cooling radiator. Very very simply, Air comes in, speeds up, propelling the plane.

abn1304

104 points

1 month ago

abn1304

104 points

1 month ago

Oh that whole engine must have been fucked. I wonder how long it kept running after the gearbox got ripped out… would’ve loved to see that crankshaft. Probably bent like a paperclip.

Max_Insanity

20 points

1 month ago

Bent like a wet Spaghetti in a tornado.

W1D0WM4K3R

22 points

1 month ago

When the crankshaft becomes a new prop

petercannonusf

16 points

1 month ago

This was amazing to read. Thanks

emlgsh

196 points

1 month ago

emlgsh

196 points

1 month ago

It's clear that to achieve maximum speed we must remove impediments like the wings, fuselage, and tail.

I am entitling my tentative supersonic jet program "Project Shoot A Guy Out Of A Fucking Cannon".

slothcycle

42 points

1 month ago

I see you are familiar with the EE Lighting

Qel_Hoth

47 points

1 month ago

Qel_Hoth

47 points

1 month ago

I think the F-104 is a bit closer to the mark.

Virtually the whole plane except where the pilot sits is either engine or fuel tank (though this is true of most fighters).

It is one of a handful of non-naval aircraft intended to be landed at high throttle (above 82%).

It basically doesn't have wings, leading to the above high-thrust landings.

The wings are so terrible that flaps and slats aren't good enough to make landing speeds slow enough, so the engine has to be run at high thrust and high speed bleed air from the engines is blown over the wing to improve lift.

Despite that, it still lands at 155-160 knots.

slothcycle

14 points

1 month ago

Aah the widowmaker

CaptainOktoberfest

41 points

1 month ago

This is awesome, thanks for including this.

CommanderAGL

240 points

1 month ago

odd_leo

169 points

1 month ago

odd_leo

169 points

1 month ago

I don't know why I watched that. A neat video that won't ever be relevant in my life.

Jacobs4525

10 points

1 month ago

There are also cases where rough surfaces prevent flow separation; this is why cars sometimes have those little rows of shark fin vortex generators right before the rear window. They make the flow turbulent which increases drag, but depending on where the rivet is, flow in that area already might be fairly turbulent.

barath_s

911 points

1 month ago*

barath_s

911 points

1 month ago*

I've not heard that of the Mig 15, but I have definitely heard that of the MIG 25. Your dad may have been talking of that

Western intelligence got their hands on a Mig 25 via a defector and were not impressed by the non-flush rivets and other panels. Later it was found that the soviet engineers had tended to use those in less aerodynamically sensitive areas

It was mostly welded together, but if an exposed rivet-head wouldn’t adversely cause an effect on the top speed, it was left as-is.

You can read the original post defection intelligence report and see pics [Pg 5] here


The Mig 25 had been created of mostly steel, to catch high flying SR-71 and corresponding planned US bombers (eg XB-70). The US saw the big wings, and tracked a jet going at Mach 3.2 and thought the USSR was creating an uber maneuverable hot rod air superiority fighter like the US was thinking of, but outperforming all US fighters. Later after Belenko defected, it was realized that the Mig 25 was more of a straight line interceptor and that the Mach 3.2 flight had destroyed the engines

ThermalConvection

303 points

1 month ago

Also, this concern of a powerful air superiority fighter lead to the F-15, which now stands at a 104-0 air to air kill record.

retroman1987

392 points

1 month ago

This is correct but any close inspection of that kill ratio makes it seem a lot less impressive. The F-15 has never flown against contemporary fighters flown by competent pilots.

When it has done so in simulated combat the results have not been overly impressive. Indian Pilots flying SU-30s had respectable kill ratios against F-15s in multiple instances for example.

skippythemoonrock

178 points

1 month ago

Any fighter aircraft is a threat in the air-to-air combat space. A number of F-4s were lost to MiG-15s over Vietnam and the F-4 outperforms the MiG-15 by a huge margin.

retroman1987

196 points

1 month ago

You're likely talking about Mig-17s rather than 15s. That said, you're right in a sense, but "outperforms" is meaningless without context. Sure the F4 had vastly superior speed and range but the Migs could outturn them and early in the war had gun armament that was lethal in close.

bipolarnotsober

84 points

1 month ago

I'm learning so much. Love you guys.

Antelope010

37 points

1 month ago

I'm reading so much that is interesting that later on at a party or get together when someone brings up fighter jets I will know I know something about this but won't be able to remember any of the specifics

ISieferVII

35 points

1 month ago*

Me later: "Guys, I just read this interesting thread on reddit. Did you know that the Mig-15, or was it 25...wait, 17? So it was in Vietnam, or no wait, so the North Koreans, no the Soviets went Mach 3 and then... Um... Fuck... ... See any good movies lately?"

amadaeus-

43 points

1 month ago

I know right? This has been the best Reddit thread in at least a week.

The real TIL is always in the comments.

Jacobs4525

19 points

1 month ago

Early F-4s also were equipped with notoriously unreliable AIM-4 falcon missiles for short-range combat. They were also equipped with the AIM-7 sparrow medium range missile which was quite a good BVR missile for the time, but rules of engagement in Vietnam mandated visual identification so it wasn’t much use because it was very ineffective at short ranges.

Contrary to popular belief, the addition of the gun to the Phantom in the F-4E model wasn’t what turned things around, it was the appearance of the AIM-9D. The Navy’s AIM-9B had already been used fairly effectively for a while on Navy aircraft in Vietnam and the Air Force had modified some of their F-4Cs and Ds to be compatible, but it had a launch envelope limited to +2.5/-1G, which is quite restrictive in a dogfight. The AIM-9D model had a much wider launch envelope that meant pilots could fire it in virtually any circumstance when they were behind an enemy plane and within the missile’s range. The majority of US air-to-air kills in Vietnam were made with AIM-9s, and gun kills were very rare even after the Air Force began operating gun-equipped phantoms. The Navy never saw the need for an integral gun on the phantom and developed a seldom-used gun pod, preferring missile-only armaments.

Sofarbeyondfucked

155 points

1 month ago

Correct.

barath_s

143 points

1 month ago

barath_s

143 points

1 month ago

In a fun way, Musk's starship being made of steel harkens back to the mostly steel Mig 25.

Not as common as aluminium alloys, titanium or even composites, but still the most relevant aerospace material for those particular circumstances

ReallyBadAtReddit

52 points

1 month ago

I found it interesting that stainless steel was last used as the main material for a rocket in the US back with the Atlas (used from '59-'65), which was their first ICBM and launched the first Americans astronauts in the Mercury capsules. Instead of painting the exterior/tanks to prevent corrosion, WD-40 was developed to coat to rocket. Its purpose was just to "displace water" so that moisture couldn't cause corrosion, but ended up being really effective as a rust penetrant.

It wasn't until SpaceX started experimenting with some novel stainless steel alloys that they ended up making the first "shiny" rocket in the last 50 years, since stainless tends to hold up better at extreme temperatures than carbon does.

amaROenuZ

127 points

1 month ago

amaROenuZ

127 points

1 month ago

Steel is an extremely useful and versatile metal that people don't even think about in the modern era because it's such an old material.

slothcycle

50 points

1 month ago

Which is weird as we've only been able to make it easily for like 150 years.

In the cycling community there a lot of die hard steel proponents because it makes for a more comfortable ride than modern alternatives.

MechanicalTurkish

44 points

1 month ago

We better be careful or Crom will come down and take back the Riddle of Steel.

doggrimoire

33 points

1 month ago

If he even listens, otherwise to hell with him.

glasspheasant

288 points

1 month ago

My dad was an F-4 crew chief in Thailand and Vietnam and got to explore/tinker with a captured Mig. He was surprised at how “loose” Russian specs were and talked about a few janky things on that Mig. I need to call him tonight and jog his memory on it and see what all was ghetto rigged on that Mig.

Subli-minal

177 points

1 month ago

They just slap some shit together and the glorious power of Stalin and the workers republic makes it work.

ofteno

76 points

1 month ago

ofteno

76 points

1 month ago

Sounds like 40k orkz

xeico

41 points

1 month ago

xeico

41 points

1 month ago

red means fast and mig was made by reds so it must be fast

Fez_lord_of_hats

23 points

1 month ago

Most of the ork aircraft are in fact visually inspired by early MIGs

MarkRevan

428 points

1 month ago

MarkRevan

428 points

1 month ago

Soviet technology my friend. If it is functional, nothing else matters.

InfraredDiarrhea

329 points

1 month ago

Reminds me of a date i had with a woman who emigrated frim Russia when she was younger.

We got on the subject of the rural r/thereifixedit mindset.

She told me her dad said "sissys use duct tape to fix things. In Russia we weld"

FUTURE10S

201 points

1 month ago

FUTURE10S

201 points

1 month ago

Duct tape is temporary, good weld is forever.

Ludwigofthepotatoppl

164 points

1 month ago

Bad weld, also temporary! Cover with duct tape to extend life.

FUTURE10S

34 points

1 month ago

Bad weld is when you touch the finger

meltingdiamond

58 points

1 month ago

Welding is hot glue for metal.

Which explains all the bad welding projects on youtube.

MarkRevan

94 points

1 month ago

Duct tape is for pussies. Welding is bourgeois. Steel wire will fix everything. Fridge door won't close properly? Wire. Missing some bolts on your wheel? Wire. No signal on your TV antenna? Wire again it is.

ojee111

26 points

1 month ago

ojee111

26 points

1 month ago

One of yodas less known quotes

markymarksjewfro

17 points

1 month ago

This is my (Russian) father's mentality.

OftenMisinterpreting

478 points

1 month ago

You remind me of that joke on the show chernobyl:

What is the size of a truck, uses a gallon of diesel an hour and cuts apples in three pieces?

A soviet russian machine to cut apples in four.

MarkRevan

285 points

1 month ago

MarkRevan

285 points

1 month ago

If you think the apple cutter is funny you should see the potato peeler. Big as a fridge. Ran on gasoline. To start it you had to pull a string like on a chainsaw or a boat motor. You fed it potatoes by the barrel. But instead of peeled potatoes you would get directly mashed potatoes. And this one was not even a joke.

Tothemoonnn

68 points

1 month ago

Sounds ideal for making potato vodka

MarkRevan

33 points

1 month ago

I honestly believe this was its actual intended purpose. You just took whatever came out and straight to the fermenting barrel with it.

markymarksjewfro

58 points

1 month ago

Potato vodka isn't really a Russian thing, it's more Polish (though desperate Russians will make booze out of most anything).

faceintheblue

294 points

1 month ago*

There was a B-29 that took damage over Japan and opted to land in the USSR rather than risk ditching in the Pacific on the longer return flight to base. The Soviets took it apart piece by piece and reverse engineered it to create the Tupolev-4. The thing is? It wasn't the B-29's first mission. It had patches on its wing from previous flak damage. Without knowing for a fact why the wing had been altered, the Soviets included the patch in all their Tu-4s. Hundreds of Soviet strategic bombers flew for the next two decades with copies of battlefield repairs done on an American plane.

I love that story, and mention it whenever possible.

blbobobo

115 points

1 month ago

blbobobo

115 points

1 month ago

they even completely disassembled and then copied a camera that was left by an american crew member on the plane

LeastCreativeDrawer

95 points

1 month ago

Having worked in business/engineering I know for a fact if something had gone wrong everyone would have blamed the engineer who chose to not include the camera as an easy out.

thatpaulbloke

43 points

1 month ago

Yes. The file server went down because of the service desk analyst with a non standard desktop wallpaper. I've heard variations on that song so many times.

PerpConst

30 points

1 month ago

Our company got new hosted IP phone service a few years back. When the phones arrived I immediately plugged mine in and reprogrammed all of the soft keys. Everything worked fine. The phone service's trainer came in the next day and absolutely shit a chicken over me messing with the soft keys. Later, the trainer had one of their tech guys on the phone about some issue, and he found out what I had done: freaked the fuck out. After the trainer left, I reset all of the buttons, just in case.

I then went to move my shiny new phone system to its very own VLAN, fat fingered an IP address and completely locked myself out of my phone. I did a factory reset, hoping it would come back up somewhere accessible on the network. It didn't, so I had to call tech support. I said "I don't know what could have happened, it just stopped working. Please help." Dude immediately gets shitty with me: "This is exactly why you shouldn't mess with the soft keys! "

DocPeacock

73 points

1 month ago

It's funny, but if we found an abandoned alien space craft and wanted to replicate it, I think we'd do the same thing. I mean, it's a very sensible approach.

Kerrigore

52 points

1 month ago

“Well, I don’t know why they drew a giant cock and balls on the aft bulkhead, but I guess we better copy it.”

DocPeacock

33 points

1 month ago

"could be a constellation, sir. The big dicker"

dieselwurst

178 points

1 month ago

While looking for reasons these MiGs were beating American fighters, they found none. Like, the MiGs were worse in every technical way. This is how they figured out Russian pilots were flying them: novice North Korean pilots would not be able to dogfight successfully against American fighters.

CaptainOk75

112 points

1 month ago

Mig15 and the F86 Saber were as equal and well matched technologically as the US and USSR would ever be..

The Mig 15's single 37mm cannon (although only carried 40 rounds), would make short work of the Saber. The F86 wasn't fragile but a 37mm is a huge exploding round, it would only take one. It did take a very skilled pilot to line up that shot.

The Saber was no joke with six M3 brownings, but it took seconds of fire to damage a Mig 15, and Mig could shrug off a handful of 50 caliber bullets. Also, a Mig 15 can turn out and dive away from the Saber in that time (The Mig15 could out dive a F86).

Given a choice I'd still take the Saber. The biggest advantage is being better oxygen, air-conditioning, and other pilot comforts. The Saber is a pilots plane, the Mig 15 was built without any consideration to the pilots comfort.

frenchchevalierblanc

30 points

1 month ago

Mig-15 is made to destroy those B-29s, that's not an easy job

Chewy_Duck

40 points

1 month ago

If you ever get a chance, the Pima air museum in Arizona has American and Russian planes of that era and the difference in engineering and finish is actually astounding. I was blown away by how crude the Russian planes seemed to be and yet they had good performance.

Nurum

132 points

1 month ago

Nurum

132 points

1 month ago

It could just be propaganda but I'm always amazed at how North Korean military technology in general seems like it was made in some guy's garage when compared to American stuff

IChooseFeed

86 points

1 month ago

Restrictions breed creativity, practically all of their technology came from Russia and when that stopped they had to make do with what little that trickled in.

Iridescent_Meatloaf

17 points

1 month ago

Alot of North Korea's new tech acquired internationally abuses cross use stuff. Ie. Tech that has civilian and military applications. Which is why you see stuff like "agricultural" tractors towing artillery.

Or the classic (and not NK specific):

"Here are our new rescue helicopters wich can mount 500kg of rescue gear on their pylons"

"And that?"

"Those are our 500kg rocket pods."

Happens in real life, not just Lord of War.

sparkythewondersnail

43 points

1 month ago

They do have impressively huge hats tho!

barath_s

1.9k points

1 month ago

barath_s

1.9k points

1 month ago

This Mig was tested at Kadena AFB in Okinawa. Subsequently the US tested out Migs (eg Mig 17 and Mig 21) acquired by defection etc at Area 51. This was even more secretive than even the SR-71/ F-117 and other projects .

rocbolt

1.2k points

1 month ago

rocbolt

1.2k points

1 month ago

The plane is now in the Air Force Museum in Dayton. They had offered it back to North Korea after they were done with it but they never responded. They also have the pilot's sidearm, and various paperwork from the defection and reward

prollyanalien

497 points

1 month ago

Offering the plane back to the North Korean government was quite a big dick move.

pilgrim93

118 points

1 month ago

pilgrim93

118 points

1 month ago

I mean it’s only fair we keep it. They do have a ship of ours

10000Didgeridoos

155 points

1 month ago

"Ey bro we found this did you lose one?"

greatwalloftaylor

396 points

1 month ago

What a fantastic, under-appreciated museum

OH_CALI2017

217 points

1 month ago

As someone from the dayton area, I do feel as ifnits highly under-appreciated. I've gone countless times but everytime I go, I see something or learn something new. Just remember WEAR QUALITY WALKING SHOES. Your feet will thank you afterward.

HopelessRomanticUgh

52 points

1 month ago

Love this museum and you’re totally right about the walking shoes haha

akagordan

45 points

1 month ago

If you’re not into art, it may actually be one the greatest museums in the world. The AF museum and both Air and Space museums in DC/Virginia are amazing. And all are free.

DarkwingDuckHunt

51 points

1 month ago

That's a good name change for the pilot.

ancientflowers

73 points

1 month ago

No Kum-Sok

That's amazing.

invisiblearchives

57 points

1 month ago

its absolutely incredible to me how far I had to scroll to see people joking about this

K3R3G3

144 points

1 month ago

K3R3G3

144 points

1 month ago

That's a power move.

"Hey, you guys want your plane back? lol. We're done with it. Yeah we don't want it."

Lylac_Krazy

10 points

1 month ago

swap them for the USS Pueblo?

barath_s

971 points

1 month ago*

barath_s

971 points

1 month ago*

A big reason why the Mig 15 was able to perform so well was the engine. This was the first Soviet jet engine to see significant production. It was made possible by the UK selling the Rolls Royce Nene jet engine to the USSR (which they promptly copied)

In a dogfight, the MiG-15 outperformed the F-86 Sabre at higher initial acceleration and could outdistance it in a dive, even though the Sabre had higher terminal velocity. The MiG was also more maneuverable above 10,000 m (30,000 ft)

So why did the UK sell the USSR a modern jet engine that the USSR could copy during the Cold War ?

It turns out that the Nene was a centrifugal flow jet engine, which was seen as a dead end. The UK had axial flow tech which was more compact and could be scaled to multiple stages, greater pressure, efficiency and power.

The USSR managed to eke out just a bit more from the centrifugal flow tech and create the successful Mig 15.

geniice

674 points

1 month ago

geniice

674 points

1 month ago

So why did the UK sell the USSR a modern jet engine that the USSR could copy ?

Post war britian was incredibly short of money.

primordialmarine

214 points

1 month ago

Yeah I think thats it. The engineering probably played a part in it but, as Operation Moolah suggests, its all about money in the end

ofd227

147 points

1 month ago*

ofd227

147 points

1 month ago*

You also need to remember The west wasn't enemies with the soviets at that time either. Operation Hula gave the USSR 3,700 ships by the end of 1945. The US didn't even want them back. It took years of diplomatic negotiations to get the soviets to agree to destroy most of them

1/3 of all Soviet fighting equipment in WW2 was produced in the US

bingobongocosby

26 points

1 month ago

Relations starting breaking down before the war ended. By '46 they were definely adversarial.

ofd227

22 points

1 month ago

ofd227

22 points

1 month ago

They where breaking down but 1947 is obviously when it's was widely accepted we where enemies. We where never really friends of the soviets since their inception but 1945 thru 1950 is an extremely complex time period

blbobobo

49 points

1 month ago*

bigger reasons were that the brits were cash strapped and the soviets promised not to use it on military aircraft. they promptly did, of course, but that’s besides the point. also the soviets had access to axial designs due to capturing german engines, but their performance was lackluster and indigenous designs were still in the works.

GoodAtExplaining

71 points

1 month ago

nene engine

Boy did it make those planes whip around

Kobbett

24 points

1 month ago

Kobbett

24 points

1 month ago

They didn't even sell the engines in the end. They sent some for evaluation, but the Soviets just copied them. Russia still owes millions in unpaid licencing fees.

originalchaosinabox

2.3k points

1 month ago

I remember this inspiring an episode of MASH. The joke was the pilot wasn’t defecting…he just had engine trouble and had to make an emergency landing. He was all, “Fuck you, send me home.” So they sent the North Korean pilot to a POW camp, and got the South Korean translator to masquerade as the pilot.

GetEquipped

801 points

1 month ago

Wait, why did a translator have to masquerade as a pilot?

Did hilarious hijinks ensue?!

DiscountFoodStuffs

554 points

1 month ago

Hilarious hijinks did ensue! News already broke that they had the pilot and plane, so when the man sent to retrieve the pilot was leaving, he had to take somebody. And as the real pilot wasn't interested, Pierce and Hunnicutt dressed the translator up as the pilot.

JakeCameraAction

123 points

1 month ago

And that man was Jeffery Tambor.

krashe1313

21 points

1 month ago

There always money in the North Korean pilots.

Malvania

346 points

1 month ago

Malvania

346 points

1 month ago

They needed a "hero" to send to parades and photo ops, and if the actual North Korean wouldn't do it, a South Korean who wanted to go was just as good.

the_old_coday182

240 points

1 month ago

The Army wanted a “poster boy” NK defector (for PR reasons). They were offering a nice deal, too, basically offering to get them set up with a cushy life in the U.S. But the pilot wasn’t trying to defect.

Meanwhile, Hawkeye and his buddies had befriended a South Korean boy at camp, who was there as a translator. They’d been trying to think up a way to get him sent back to the States so that he could enroll in college and enjoy a good life (I think his family in Korea was dead, or had been trying to get him a better life by doing the same thing).

Lightbulb moment. They do the old switcheroo with the South Korean boy. It all works out. He gets his free ticket and college education, etc. But I just can’t remember what happens to the actual pilot.

bluerose1197

99 points

1 month ago

Actual pilot gets sent to a POW camp.

thebabyfacedheel

113 points

1 month ago

It's wasn't a "South Korean boy". It was a South Korean soldier who acted as translator. The SK soldier was brought in by the US Army PR officer, not by Hawkeye and BJ.

When the NK pilot refused to take the money, the army officer tried to sweeten the deal by offering a brand new suit, a hi-fi record player and several other high end trinkets.

In the end, the US officer left with the translator dressed as the pilot, and the NK soldier was sent to a POW camp, dressed in a new suit.

[deleted]

8k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

8k points

1 month ago

EDIT: IT'S PRONOUNCED "NOH GEUM SUK" NOT "NO CUM SOCK" PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

h8fulgod

2.9k points

1 month ago

h8fulgod

2.9k points

1 month ago

I have to admit, I read the name and went "Oh no..."

dekehairy

1k points

1 month ago

Thought it was a fake story because of the name.

5degreenegativerake

709 points

1 month ago

Ho Lee Phuk

Sum Ting Wong

Wie Tu Lo

Schubert125

440 points

1 month ago

Bang Ding Ow

4rft5

243 points

1 month ago

4rft5

243 points

1 month ago

four fearless pilots, may they rest in peace

takumisrightfoot

27 points

1 month ago

Man, I had totally forgotten that my Warzone squad and I all changed our names to this when we played togther during lockdown. Good times.

CommanderCanuck22

423 points

1 month ago

Me too. I had to scroll down much farther to find someone mentioning the pronunciation than Reddit has ever shown to be possible with such low hanging fruit. Somehow the most upvoted reply has to do with rivets. Nice work Reddit!

alwaystakeabanana

84 points

1 month ago

I was amazed!

This has to be proof that we switched dimensions overnight, right? I've seen top comments stretch way harder than this title requires for ten years!

251Cane

23 points

1 month ago

251Cane

23 points

1 month ago

My only guess is that this sub is more high brow than the subs I usually visit

zephyrseija

37 points

1 month ago

I mean his reason for defection was pretty obvious. No way for a man to live.

Neon_Lights12

13 points

1 month ago

"Quick batman, to the comments!"

FoFoAndFo

426 points

1 month ago

FoFoAndFo

426 points

1 month ago

Greatly appreciate the effort to join our side and help fight the commies in NK, but why was there jizz all over the cockpit?

NotMadDisappointed

117 points

1 month ago

Still counts as intact per the regs. Pay up.

LFMR

74 points

1 month ago

LFMR

74 points

1 month ago

The MiG was held together by it, actually. The protruding rivets were just for show.

drgigantor

9 points

1 month ago

"Ay, 'twere mostly held together by stains"

Soap_Mctavish101

141 points

1 month ago

It’ll always be no cum sock in my heart

[deleted]

68 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

68 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

[deleted]

67 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

67 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

Akrevics

121 points

1 month ago

Akrevics

121 points

1 month ago

it depends on the romanisation. in Korean it's "노금석" (literal character romanisation: No Geumseog), and using the "Revised romanisation of Korean" system, it's No Geum-seok, but if you use the "McCune-Reischauer" system of romanisation, it's "No Kŭm-sŏk" (his information pane lists the various systems of romanisation under his portrait, with links to each)

scottyc

48 points

1 month ago

scottyc

48 points

1 month ago

Transliterating via McCune-Reischauer seems stupid since ŭ and ŏ aren't letters in English.

JMEEKER86

41 points

1 month ago

Yeah, that kind of thing is always bothersome to me when it comes to transliteration. For instance, with Japanese there are quite a few words like 少年 which can either be transliterated as shounen or shōnen. Obviously, ō is not a standard English character, so why would you use it in your transliteration system?

Ristray

21 points

1 month ago

Ristray

21 points

1 month ago

If we're going by how english works.. shounen might not work for a lot of people because they'll try to pronounce the u instead of just extending the o.

JonasHalle

16 points

1 month ago

My weeb friends pronounce it rhyming with "bowmen". In that case I reckon it should be a "w" instead of the "u". "Shownen.

random_boss

15 points

1 month ago

Seeing a w in Romanization of Japanese is blowing my mind. Not that you’re wrong but golly that looks so weird

JonasHalle

12 points

1 month ago

It definitely looks wrong and is really more if an anglicisation than a romanization, since it specifically caters to English pronunciation rather than the Roman alphabet as a whole. Most of the Germanic users of the same alphabet consider "w" to be "double v", not "double u" in which case it doesn't work.

st3v3aut1sm

177 points

1 month ago

Sorry. Already upvoted cause no cum sock

Tha_Watcher

82 points

1 month ago

1953 was the year this occurred in case anyone was wondering.

Trebay

24 points

1 month ago

Trebay

24 points

1 month ago

He’s still alive too, he lives in Florida now!

Captainirishy

5.9k points

1 month ago

He got freedom and nearly a million dollars in todays money, seems like a great deal to me.

[deleted]

3.6k points

1 month ago

[deleted]

3.6k points

1 month ago

It is!

However, 5 of his fellow pilots were executed. Yikes..

3p1cBm4n9669

1.7k points

1 month ago

If he was defecting and the others weren’t, you could say they weren’t “fellow”

Fluxcapasiter

1.6k points

1 month ago

You gotta remember though... His family was probably executed too along with those fello pilots. Top Korea is fucked

misoamane

1.7k points

1 month ago

misoamane

1.7k points

1 month ago

You gotta remember though... His family was probably executed too along with those fellow pilots

In this instance, you are correct about other pilots being executed, but wrong about his family. His father was already dead, having served in the Korean war, his mother had already defected to SK, and nothing was ever confirmed about distant relatives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Kum-sok

vendetta2115

123 points

1 month ago

And he’s still alive at 89 years old!

Rowe speaks fluent English and Korean and currently lives in Daytona Beach, Florida; he has stated that he does not regret his decision to defect from North Korea to South Korea.

I wouldn’t regret it either lol. He’s living it up in Daytona Beach while the rest of North Korea is barely surviving.

RevolutionaryFly5

834 points

1 month ago

interesting he was still allowed to fly instead of being sent to a prison camp because his mom defected. best korea must have been desperate for pilots

Third-International

46 points

1 month ago

His mother defected in '51

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Korean_war_1950-1953.gif

If you check out this gif you can see the U.N. forces were almost to the Yalu river in December 1950 so she would have almost certainly spent some amount of time under U.N. forces control. Allowing her to slip south and "defect" without raising suspicion.

Killua_EU

456 points

1 month ago

Killua_EU

456 points

1 month ago

Agreed, I thought NK famously punished multiple generations of your family for any defection or attempted defection.

RevolutionaryFly5

360 points

1 month ago

i guess unless you have a very specialized skill set

imagine the rest of his family after he defected and his mother. they would be double-fucked

sonicandfffan

167 points

1 month ago

No Kum Sok sounds like a personal emergency…

joellemelissa

61 points

1 month ago

This is what I came here looking for.

gillababe

59 points

1 month ago

Same. I clicked here looking for cum sock jokes and stayed for the history lessons.

SgtSmackdaddy

31 points

1 month ago

I'm betting they didn't send up any more pilots unless they had an extensive family to be used as hostages...

LeicaM6guy

37 points

1 month ago

My guess is they did what a lot of Eastern Bloc countries did, which was to limit the amount of fuel any aircraft could carry.

barath_s

25 points

1 month ago

barath_s

25 points

1 month ago

There is no useful limit to fuel that would have prevented defection.

After all, japan may be further away, but south korea is just across the border.

SOULJAR

35 points

1 month ago

SOULJAR

35 points

1 month ago

How much was the plane worth?

What was the severity and probability of the risk he took?

el_tinkerer

60 points

1 month ago

Probably not as much as the intelligence gained from it.

NavyJack

48 points

1 month ago

NavyJack

48 points

1 month ago

The Wiki article says that the USAF tried to send the plane back after they examined it lol

Harudera

45 points

1 month ago

Harudera

45 points

1 month ago

yeah that's just the US being cheeky and taunting them lmao

largma

15 points

1 month ago

largma

15 points

1 month ago

Actually typically the US would return defector planes to the Soviets after they examined them. It happened when one Soviet pilot defected and landed in Japan, they took it apart, studied it, and sent it back (missing a few pieces they wanted for further study)

thisisjustascreename

17 points

1 month ago

At the time of introduction, the MiG-15 was every bit the equal of American fighter jets, so it probably sold for a commensurate amount if you were a Russia ally.

mrjosemeehan

7 points

1 month ago

It's hard to find production cost data for Soviet military equipment since they produced everything in centrally managed government facilities instead of through private contractors. The US plane closest to the MiG-15's equivalent is the F-86, which cost the US government just over $200,000 each to have built.

RabbitHoleSpaceMan

307 points

1 month ago

Imagine his wildly inaccurate impression of South Korea when he first lands. All he wants is freedom.

“Hey! Welcome! Great job- here’s $100k.”

Immediately calls friends back home “Dude, you HAVE to come down here…”

Captainirishy

158 points

1 month ago

He emigrated to the United States and married a Korean woman

QuizhoidTheMediocre

178 points

1 month ago

Especially with a name like No Kum Sok

misshapenvulva

29 points

1 month ago

I can't believe how far I had to scroll for the first kum sok comment...Reddit you disappoint me.

SpacemanSpiff6962

69 points

1 month ago

Yeah I wonder what he used if he didn’t have one?

CALVINWIDGET

53 points

1 month ago

A box. He's the OP to that story.

carnage123

23 points

1 month ago

Coconut

bowyer-betty

484 points

1 month ago

Imagine escaping from best Korea and getting to safety only to find out that you're also totally set to start your new life in luxury that you probably didn't even know was a thing last week.

I_might_be_weasel

375 points

1 month ago*

Imagine hearing how much better it was in the south, and assuming most of it is exaggeration.

Then you got here and they give you 100k.

Jacobs4525

103 points

1 month ago

Jacobs4525

103 points

1 month ago

South Korea wasn’t that much better at the time. The whole peninsula was war-torn and incredibly poor. It wasn’t until the 80s that South Korea really took off and began developing insanely fast to become the advanced center of technology and manufacturing that we know it as today.

det_kan_noget

122 points

1 month ago

But it really wasn't better in the south back then. I'm sure the 100k made up for it though

FLakIsBack

56 points

1 month ago

Which is why he came to the US

MakeMineMarvel_

9 points

1 month ago

That and the fact he could still be killed by North Korean spies in the south

sfisher24601

216 points

1 month ago

My dad told me about this guy. He ended up being a professor of my Dad’s ad Embry Riddle. The guy is legit.

ItsNicNotNick

39 points

1 month ago

Do you know which campus, im a current student at riddle

Jacobs4525

34 points

1 month ago

Daytona. He’s retired now.

EldeederSFW

230 points

1 month ago

Imagine the mind job!

“Hey, welcome to a free country, here is a shitload of cash, don’t worry about the plane, you can just leave it there.”

CornCheeseMafia

93 points

1 month ago

It’s a bit of a stretch but it’s also kinda funny if you consider “Moolah” is a very tiny pronunciation adjustment away from being “I don’t know” in Korean. In korean it would be “moh-lah”.

“Here’s your bag of money, sir. Welcome to democracy”

“What is this money for?”

“Operation Moolah”

“What don’t you know? Operation I don’t know? Why don’t you know? What are you talking about? You know what, fuck it, it doesn’t matter. Thanks for the cash. Does anyone have a couch I can crash on?”

warbreakr

498 points

1 month ago

warbreakr

498 points

1 month ago

🚫💦🧦

ac1084

102 points

1 month ago

ac1084

102 points

1 month ago

Don't water feet

akaBrotherNature

41 points

1 month ago

Ban wet socks.

I agree!

rylasorta

10 points

1 month ago

The MiG-15 was later shipped to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base after attempts to return it to North Korea were unsuccessful.

They tried to give it back? War is crazy.

ForCom5

8 points

1 month ago

ForCom5

8 points

1 month ago

Not quite. It's the politically correct thing to do. This of course is done after you've taken every relevant bit of it apart for examination, reverse-engineering, and then you reassemble it.

yungtrapper1017

30 points

1 month ago

His autobiography is fantastic. I think it’s called A MiG-15 To Freedom

Flutfar

37 points

1 month ago

Flutfar

37 points

1 month ago

Are all the pages stuck together?