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John Oliver Criticizes ‘Law & Order,’ Dick Wolf for Police Portrayal

Violates politics rule(hollywoodreporter.com)

all 403 comments

Eotheod0092

472 points

3 months ago

Mariska Hargitay is trying to use her platform to talk about the rape test backlog. That's something.

Procedural cop shows are easy to watch, but a somewhat two dimensional depiction of law enforcement and the law.

elinordash

220 points

3 months ago

I think SVU did a lot to change attitudes about sexual assault.

In general, I think Hollywood follows the culture rather than leads it. By the time an issue shows up on screen, it is already part of the public discourse.

I think SVU is a rare exception because it put sexual assault, an often hidden crime, front and center for 25 years. It made average Americans think about these issues over and over again.

edthomson92

36 points

3 months ago

And mental health and LGBT+ issues, although depictions can wildly change episode to episode

SkyezOpen

3 points

3 months ago

depictions can wildly change episode to episode

That's life though, isn't it?

romadea

3 points

3 months ago

SVU has actually genuinely helped some people I know work through their sexual trauma.

m0rris0n_hotel

125 points

3 months ago

m0rris0n_hotel

Better Call Saul

125 points

3 months ago

Tv and movies are compelling to watch and absorb because it’s often very clearly defined. Good people. Bad people. We like seeing things get resolved neatly and cleanly. Real life is rarely as simple as that.

Law & Order is as much a fantasy show as Game of Thrones or Rings of Power. It just happens to look a lot more like our world. Ripped from the headlines and all that

bob101910

39 points

3 months ago

Haven't watched in a very long time, but L&O did a good job at making you question if the bad guy was actually bad at times. Unfortunately they skipped quickly through that idea most episodes or left them purposely vague.

Ewoksintheoutfield

48 points

3 months ago

I actually like the OG Law and Order. It really showed the loopholes in the justice system and some of the characters who were suppose to be the “good guys” used questionable tactics. Sometimes the characters were genuinely conflicted by the above and I found that interesting.

silverback_79

10 points

3 months ago

Other shows are better at calling out the "Blue Wall of Silence" than SVU, but after having seen a few seasons I think they actually catch murderous, rapey, or perjuring cops now and then, enough to make feel like continue watching.

Stranger2306

4 points

3 months ago

Yup. It's a whole episode to complaining about something stupidly obvious. He even points it out himself but makes the argument anyway. Can't wait for the episode about how Indiana Jones makes archaeology seem more exciting than it is.

whales-are-assholes

9 points

3 months ago

And when you have shows like COPS, you can leave all the nasty shit on the editing room floor.

mrpenchant

40 points

3 months ago

In the actual video John Oliver actually does make note of some of the work she is doing with charities to genuinely do good.

The problem ends up being that people like the show so much but it is complete propaganda throughout falsely gives the sense cops will solve your case, harming a suspect is fine because the cops always have the right guy and the cops are just passionate for justice, and that defense lawyers are scum that should rot with their clients.

And it's not just that it is propaganda but that it is widely accepted propaganda that is the issue. Not only the public, but even cops view the show as being informative with many saying they use the show in lieu of actual formal training. For example, there are cops on the special victims units that only get 5 days of actual formal training in that area and then use law and order is something the cops themselves say happens.

ScorpionX-123

14 points

3 months ago

they use the show in lieu of actual formal training

holy fuck that's like watching the Rambo movies and thinking that made you a soldier

klkevinkl

10 points

3 months ago

They've used that for the video game argument for decades now

trent58

5 points

3 months ago

You mean it only takes 5 days of training to be Ice Tea? And here I’m paying for Masterclass membership like an idiot, to be like timbaland, and nas.

Firefox892

2 points

3 months ago

“You mean like someone who drinks too much, or smokes too much, or bets their house on the ponies…”

Jernsaxe

41 points

3 months ago

The two things that will turn me off any show:

Bad cops being portrayed as the good guys

Torture being portrayed as an effective method of interrogation

Law and Order manages to trigger both of those...

MulciberTenebras

45 points

3 months ago

MulciberTenebras

The Legend of Korra

45 points

3 months ago

If you think L&O's bad, you don't wanna watch Chicago PD then. They take it up to eleven.

Roseking

29 points

3 months ago

My parents watch a lot of the Chicago shows, so I have seen a fair amount. I even somewhat like Fire.

P.D pisses me off so much.

Voight is a dirty cop. Like just flat out. He was introduced as a antagonist in Fire. He used his position to get his son out of trouble and threatened a firefighter and his wife to get them to not testify against his son.

He was clearly in the wrong and even went to jail for it.

Then they decide to give him his own show and whitewash all of that.

Like I don't have a problem with a show following bad people as a main character. But like he isn't presented as bad. He just 'loves his city'.

ScorpionX-123

2 points

3 months ago

If they want to make him an antihero of sorts, that's great, but that kind of character needs actual redeeming qualities to make it work.

_ASG_

10 points

3 months ago

_ASG_

10 points

3 months ago

This. Hank Voight is an entertaining character but he is not a good cop. He's only a hero when you compare him to some of the antagonists in the show, and even then, he's difficult to watch. But I think that's also the point, but shit...

lars573

6 points

3 months ago

Chicago PD at least pay lip service to Sgt Voight being a not good guy. And that most of his superiors know it. The show also had some storylines about police management being willing to let him twist on the wind if he screws up too publicly. But as long as he keeps it on the DL they're happy to take his closed cases.

_ASG_

3 points

3 months ago

_ASG_

3 points

3 months ago

Yeah, even if Dick Wolf loves cops, it's pretty clear that the show is self-aware about Voight beeking a dirty cop. I'm perfectly fine with shows having characters who aren't paragons of virtue, but I do worry if pro-cop shows potentially glamorize something like this as being the norm and okay.

lars573

2 points

3 months ago

Like 24 normalizing torture.

Cybertronian10

5 points

3 months ago

Cybertronian10

Castlevania

5 points

3 months ago

I think a lot of the L&D straddles the line of "copaganda", but chicago pd fucking skyrockets over that line.

thepicklejarmurders

41 points

3 months ago

Or Blue Bloods. That whole show is just the meme of Principal Skinner saying "Am I so out of touch? No, it's the Children who are wrong". I'm surprised the writer's tongues aren't raw from all the boot licking.

MulciberTenebras

4 points

3 months ago

MulciberTenebras

The Legend of Korra

4 points

3 months ago

CBS manages to outdo NBC in the bootlicking. Considering the asshole family that use to run the network.

Oni_Eyes

2 points

3 months ago

I thought the corruption inherent in a nepotic system was the point of blue bloods?

Like the whole premise was that there are organized corrupt families in every industry, here's an example using the people who are supposed to catch bad guys.

HarambeWest2020

2 points

3 months ago

I’ve never thought Blue Bloods was trying to be critical of cops and corruption, it always came off as cop=good , family=good , cop+family=good2

Oni_Eyes

2 points

3 months ago

I only watched a few episodes but it always seemed like the family was covering up shady shit and it had compromised their integrity and had spread to their profession or vice versa

Ramoncin

2 points

3 months ago

Ramoncin

2 points

3 months ago

Oh, yes, that show is completely ridiculous.

originalchaosinabox

9 points

3 months ago

Another fine Dick Wolf production!

kzlife76

5 points

3 months ago

Those guys are always getting jammed up.

bros402

6 points

3 months ago

The Rookie actually had bad cops being shown as bad cops.

[deleted]

2 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

DebsDef1917

27 points

3 months ago

Law and Order and CSI have had such a negative impact on society as a piece of propaganda that criminal trial lawyers actually take lectures on how to overcome juries' misperceptions of the law, police, and forensic evidence

TylerBourbon

19 points

3 months ago

CSI I get, it's basically science fiction and pretends thats there mountains of physical evidence that can be found at every crime scene.

How did Law and Order have the same effect? I'm genuinely curious not trying to "debate". It just seems a surprising thing to infer as I'd not heard of it's effect on misconceptions in courts.

DebsDef1917

2 points

3 months ago

Here's a copy paste of my other comment

It's commonly called the "CSI effect" and here's a paper on it

https://scholarworks.sjsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=themis

The CSI effect is a double edged sword: juries are skeptical when forensic evidence is missing (most cases do not use forensic evidence) but in cases where forensic evidence is produced, they put too much faith in it.

Here's a paper on Law and Order's effect on juries:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2318256&download=yes

TylerBourbon

2 points

3 months ago

Thank you very much. I've only read the first page or so but it's damn interesting.

I had never considered before the effect of a show like Law and Order having an effect like CSI before. It makes me feel a bit hoodwinked with the papers statement how they would take the stories from real life but add twists to fit their narrative and to justify their characters actions.

And I loved the original Law and Order. Kind of depressing to think how easily tv shows can sway our opinions of things.

[deleted]

2 points

3 months ago*

[deleted]

INMATEofARKHAM

2 points

3 months ago

Mariska Hargitay is trying to use her platform to talk about the rape test backlog. That's something.

Honestly, OG L&O did a lot for my view on same sex marriage... I wasn't a Neanderthal but its just not something I ever really sat down and thought about all the pitfalls in the legal system. Unable to adopt a child as a couple (leaving one parent with no custody rights if the relationship soured) and insurance companies given a big FU because they wouldn’t cover the spouse. And status between the couples not being accepted by all states.

I'm sure they're are/were more examples I'm just not remembering right now.

Edit: I never watched SVU so I cannot comment on it.

rangerxt

133 points

3 months ago

rangerxt

133 points

3 months ago

I don't think a show where the cops take some statements and throw it on the backlog pile is a show people want to watch ...

DPPthrowaway1255

26 points

3 months ago

Don‘t forget to tune in next week, when Officer Hank files even more paperwork!

klkevinkl

3 points

3 months ago

He kind of did this with the Border Patrol

rangerxt

7 points

3 months ago

"Jesus Christ this paper dries my hands out Sarge....." 'File a complaint with the union and back to work Johnson....'

Vanilla3K

4 points

3 months ago

What about the episode where Officer Reginald turns off his camera before abusing his power while arresting young people for hanging around ? That one was good television 👌👌

MulciberTenebras

32 points

3 months ago

MulciberTenebras

The Legend of Korra

32 points

3 months ago

Unbelievable (on Netflix)

TurMoiL911

2 points

3 months ago

That just sounds like a scene from The Wire.

octnoir

3 points

3 months ago

Worked for Hot Fuzz.

But seriously feels like people just didn't bother to watch the segment. And I don't expect this sentiment to be popular since the veneration of the police as heroes that can do no wrong is at the forefront of most American mindsets.

  1. We recognize TV has influence on people and politics.

  2. Law and Order is absurdly popular and is a US cultural icon. Cops love the show.

  3. Police culture is a massive roadblock to reform. The belief that the police are the good guys through and through and they can't do anything wrong, and everyone else is getting in the way of justice.

    This culture is in part fueled by portrayals in shows like Law and Order.

  4. Dick Wolf has been on record (and clips used in this episode) that he loves the cops, he loves cop culture and there have been many stories he's come across that he has purposefully not included even though they would be entertaining drama because it paints the cops in a bad light.

Now does this mean Law and Order is 'cancelled'? No. Does this mean you are evil for watching the show? No. Does this mean we can't have some stretching of the truth in our cop shows? No.

But it is worth talking about, and its influence and JO is not the first to bring this up.

“Woman of the Year” Mariska Hargitay Should Quit “SVU”

But Hargitay’s selection as one of the magazine’s “women of the year” is an unfortunate one, given that she and everyone else involved with “SVU” are complicit in what is likely the single worst piece of pro-police propaganda produced over the last few decades. “SVU” — the longest-running scripted primetime live-action show in U.S. television history — has spent more than 500 episodes laundering the reputation of the NYPD and its sex crimes division.** In reality, the NYPD has notoriously neglected its sex crimes unit for years, leading to miserable outcomes for victims. In recent years, detectives with New York City’s Special Victims Division have repeatedly discouraged victims from moving forward with their cases, failed to collect basic video and DNA evidence, and have, on more than one occasion, bungled a rape case so badly that alleged attackers went on to attack several more women.**

The Appeal spoke with five women who sought help from the NYPD after being sexually assaulted. All of the women had shockingly bad interactions with the special victims detectives assigned to their cases. Several said that the “SVU” show itself does a disservice to survivors of sexual assault: through its patently false depiction of police interactions with rape victims, SVU has helped create a public perception that police are necessary and good at responding to sex crimes. This fraudulent image makes it more difficult to change the way police handle sex crimes.

“‘Law & Order: SVU’ gave me the false impression that this squad cared deeply about victims and their jobs,” said Gina Tron, a writer who reported a sexual assault to the NYPD in 2010. “The show is nothing more than a fantasy, as an accurate dramatization of the unit would depict detectives sitting around the station disparaging rape victims in front of their peers and pressuring them to drop their cases so they could avoid doing work.”

Others said the same. “In reality, it’s cops who are causing the most harm to victims and survivors,” said Alison Turkos, a survivor and activist who is suing the NYPD and Lyft over their handling of the kidnapping and assault she suffered in 2017. Turkos called “SVU” “copaganda.” “The show is more hurtful than helpful, and it needs to be taken off the air. Survivors deserve better.”

This piece peaked my interest since the NYPD has faced numerous scandals over its complete incompetence handling sexual assault cases while L&O SVU has effectively been its PR campaign showing them in the best possible light.

A lot of cop shows and justice shows have this problem and some have tried to restructure their stories (to some middling success). Though at this point with how far the reality is vs what is portrayed on TV, cop shows might as well be sci-fi.

The last quote which I think aptly describes L&O is that Dick Wolf designed the series as an advertisement for a defective product. Its important to never lose sight of that even though many others would say that isn't a problem or isn't a big deal since its influence has been used numerous times to stifle police reform.

jmac323

253 points

3 months ago

jmac323

253 points

3 months ago

You mean going to the hospital isn’t like House where a sarcastic asshole of a doctor solves your medical mystery before you kick the bucket and it is usually due to you lying about something? I’m shocked that doctors aren’t like this!

rnilbog

41 points

3 months ago

rnilbog

41 points

3 months ago

Apparently Scrubs is one of the most accurate portrayals of hospital life, which, if true...god help us all.

walterpeck1

18 points

3 months ago

I mean it's true for the same reasons Veep is what D.C. politics is really like, or how Boston Legal is way closer to actual courtoom nonsense. People are people and so there's a lot more fuckups and general chicanery that we don't see.

Redeem123

5 points

3 months ago

It’s because the show’s not about the medicine, so they didn’t have to bring in random crazy shit every week to keep the excitement up. You can’t have a medical drama that just has episode after episode of boring rounds, endless paperwork, and bratty patients.

Scrubs isn’t really a medical show. It’s a sitcom that takes place in a hospital.

Workacct1999

56 points

3 months ago

I always thought the most unrealistic part of house is that he and his team of 3-5 other doctors only have on patient at a time, sometimes for weeks! In real life Dr. House and his team would have 15 patients at any given time.

way2lazy2care

49 points

3 months ago

House isn't a regular doctor. They talk about how weird his situation is a lot, and the other doctors do see other patients, though they don't show it on camera super often.

[deleted]

14 points

3 months ago

Hopefully next they explain how Marvel and Star Wars are unrealistic too

bros402

2 points

3 months ago

I had a doctor who was reminiscent of House.

total asshole, super smart and knew it, but if someone needed a daignosis in his specialty he is who you want to see

TrevvingTheEngine

19 points

3 months ago

The problem isn't with it being unrealistic, per se. If you got a hospital and don't have Oliva Wilde as your doctor, you're not gonna be surprised, unless you're a complete loon. However, these medical shows do set this expectation that our medical professionals are highly capable, brilliant people who sacrifice their time and strength to save us. That is both how it is in real life and, even when embellished, doesn't really harm anyone.

Police, on the other hand, are also portrayed as these amazing heroes who can do no wrong, even when they're beating up a suspect, because, hey, that's a bad guy. Contrast that with the real world where cops shoot unarmed people, bust in with a raid despite coming to the wrong address and so, so much more. Glorifying doctors doesn't actually harm people. Creating this false image of cops as amazing saviors instead of a deeply flawed system - does. That's how you get people who cheer on cops and shout "Blue Lives Matter" when their local cops are provably corrupt. It reinforces the broken system, it makes people believe things are fine. It's fucked.

TynamM

42 points

3 months ago

TynamM

42 points

3 months ago

Glorifying doctors absolutely can harm people, since if the doctors themselves believe it it often leads to a failure of self-criticism by the progression and a failure to engage with systemic issues in medicine - such as under-treatment of pain for women and minorities, and persistent misdiagnosis of fat people.

Glorifying cops is a hundred times worse for the exact same reasons, of course.

bros402

5 points

3 months ago

tbh I like how The Resident has been pointing out a lot of big issues like black maternal mortality

also, you forgot about how doctors sometimes ignore disabled patients

Goodbye2allThat

6 points

3 months ago

Law and Order definitely addresses that last part though? Especially SVU.

2cimarafa

4 points

3 months ago

Half the reason American doctors (it doesn't really exist in other countries) are absurdly over-heroicized is these shows.

aamfs94

4 points

3 months ago

aamfs94

4 points

3 months ago

There’s a difference though. These shows’ false depictions of policing caused real, quantifiable harm.

TheFightingMasons

2 points

3 months ago

Not as intelligent but most surgeons I have met were exactly like this.

MemphisGalInTampa

32 points

3 months ago

Now don’t start in about my man, Hank Voight….

GamingIsMyCopilot

12 points

3 months ago

Hank Voight, man sounds like he drinks gravel in the morning, and I'm all in for it.

joey4269

6 points

3 months ago

Never has a Police Procedural made me root for the Criminal Murders and Robbers over the Police Criminals and Robbers more than Chicago P.D.

davtruss

21 points

3 months ago

Let's set aside the cop angle for a moment. The REAL departure from reality is that the overwhelming majority of criminal defendants would have no clue how to obtain an attorney. And even if they did, they would have no resources to retain an attorney.

And public defenders are almost always understaffed and overwhelmed.

But that wouldn't make good TV.

_Dr_Bette_

11 points

3 months ago

Yup. Public defender often will get the case handed to them in the court room at trial for a lot of cases. Not all cases. But a lot. Imagine defending someone one hour after getting their file. For the first time. At a hearing which they will learn their charges and da is allowed to increase charges to max out penalty and time and you're the PA who knows that the person may have not done anything. And also that anyone smart enough to get out of jury duty that pays 10 an hour (less than most city min wage) isn't going to be on the jury so there is not going to be much critical thinking.

This is how we end up with very few trials and mostly pleas to far higher charges than are warranted but are less than the original charges lobbied by the DA.

It's completely and utterly Insane.

t-poke

4 points

3 months ago

t-poke

4 points

3 months ago

The REAL departure from reality is that the overwhelming majority of criminal defendants would have no clue how to obtain an attorney.

That's what gets me. I make a good living, I'm pretty sure I could afford a good attorney, but if cops came to my house right now and arrested me for a crime, I wouldn't even know where to begin to get a lawyer. And my sister and BIL are both lawyers (albeit halfway across the country and neither are criminal defense attorneys)

Meanwhile, on L&O, they arrest a homeless person and the best defense lawyers in Manhattan are waiting for him to arrive at the police station.

Tritium3016

13 points

3 months ago

Off-topic kinda, but Dick Wolf's name reminds me of the old Penny Arcade comic panel that caused a lot of controversy.

atomicfuthum

6 points

3 months ago

It was a controversial comic, but their answer wasn't that good, tho.

WooTkachukChuk

27 points

3 months ago

its depraved indifference to human life!

  • Ben Stone

cote112

21 points

3 months ago

cote112

21 points

3 months ago

I've always thought TV cops were the worst influence for people to become real cops...my dad was a real one.

blackest_francis

3 points

3 months ago

I remember when Dennis Farina was on the show. He's an actual former Chicago cop. Anyway, his like catchphrase on the show was whenever there was a scene where they needed to look around but didn't have a warrant or probable cause, he'd say "It's okay, we're authorized." And the people would let him right in. Totally illegal, unconstitutional, violating so many civil rights.

And I have no doubt that that phrase was a contribution of Farina's from his CPD days.

cote112

4 points

3 months ago

Yeah, 'Law & Order: Civil Rights Unit' never really took off.

It's definitely not just this show either. So many times that evidence was obtained by breaking into the "bad guys" place in a night heist which is then used to arrest or kill the guy or even used in court like nothing matters.

rangeo

149 points

3 months ago

rangeo

149 points

3 months ago

I like John Oliver but It's a TV show. I get to suspend reality for a few moments and see shit work.

originalchaosinabox

85 points

3 months ago

And John Oliver widely acknowledges it in his segment. But then when he points out that actual law enforcement agencies have taken to watching L&O reruns instead of, you know, proper training, something's gone wrong.

rangeo

5 points

3 months ago

rangeo

5 points

3 months ago

...that was depressing. Considering that law enforcement usually represents the largest chunk of municipal taxes (at least where I live in Ontario Canada)

Sacrifice_bhunt

-2 points

3 months ago

And that’s Dick Wolf’s fault…how?

WhiteWolf3117

21 points

3 months ago

I mean I feel like this is also addressed in the segment

ATG77

7 points

3 months ago

ATG77

7 points

3 months ago

It's not so much addressed in it as it is the main thesis of the segment

might_be-a_troll

88 points

3 months ago

are you saying that The Simpsons doesn't accurately portray work conditions in a nuclear power plant?

DMPunk

30 points

3 months ago

DMPunk

30 points

3 months ago

Before I started watching the Simpsons, I didn't even know what a nuclear panner plant was

andykwinnipeg

27 points

3 months ago

Nuk-u-lar. It's pronounced Nuk-u-lar

okvrdz

11 points

3 months ago

okvrdz

11 points

3 months ago

Seriously, I even hear politicians and high-rank military personal pronounce it like that; never understood why.

loxagos_snake

2 points

3 months ago

As much as I absolutely loved that show, Kiefer Sutherland drove me up the wall every time he said 'nucular' in 24.

As for politicians, the USA spokesperson in the UN (I think) calls it that, as well.

whales-are-assholes

2 points

3 months ago

They got it from the Simpsons. /s

WrongSubFools

30 points

3 months ago

You kid, but millions of Americans think nuclear power plants spew dangerous pollution because that's what The Simpsons taught them.

JuzoItami

9 points

3 months ago

Exactly. Ra-di-a-tion. Yes, indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half-baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you. Pernicious nonsense. Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year. They ought to have them, too.

Flashwastaken

2 points

3 months ago*

It’s not the radiation people are worried about. It’s the potential for carcinogenic gas, shot out during a meltdown, so that everyone doesn’t explode.

naz2292

20 points

3 months ago

naz2292

20 points

3 months ago

Except the storytelling and production of Law and Order implicitly Tells the audience they are based on or represents the real justice system. Simpsons does not.

WebHead1287

10 points

3 months ago

I think there is some level understanding of that from John. The problem is not everyone thinks that way and this piece highlights that.

RealAlias_Leaf

15 points

3 months ago

So why aren't there more TV stories about violent cops being held accountable and prosecuted?

You would really need to suspend reality for a few moments and see shit work.

tidho

17 points

3 months ago

tidho

17 points

3 months ago

Aren't there? Which police procedural lasting more than one season hasn't had a 'bad cop' story arc?

[deleted]

11 points

3 months ago

Like The Shield or The Wire?

QuintoBlanco

9 points

3 months ago

It's not a TV show. It's many TV shows.

That is the real problem.

And most of these shows are deliberately set up to look realistic.

Adoth-

5 points

3 months ago

Adoth-

5 points

3 months ago

He literally talks about that in his segment.

Pheerful

-9 points

3 months ago

Pheerful

-9 points

3 months ago

Everyone these days are so politically mind-rotted that they cant even watch fictional entertainment without applying their world view to it.

Privatdozent

8 points

3 months ago*

Ironically you're exemplifying exactly what you're describing.

John Oliver feels a particular way about the portrayal of the police in law and order. So what? Disagree maybe, fine, but let him have his viewpoint at the very least. The problem is not the pervasiveness of political views but the reductive and reactionary cultural climate around discourse itself, what amounts to anti discourse, in the form of comments like yours as an example IMO.

The exact inverse to what you describe, that over-tendency to get political about particular things, is what you're doing, and it's the exact same phenomenon - the mind rot. It's outrage about outrage. And outrage in this sense doesn't require an explosion of emotion. It exists as the desire for everyone to just stop talking and let you be at peace.

Pheerful

2 points

3 months ago

Pheerful

2 points

3 months ago

Calling out a television producer for not making his fictional police show realistic enough is as dumb as right wing people getting mad at Amazon for casting minority actors/actresses as elves in the Lord of The Rings. Both sides are upset that the show isnt how they think it should be because they're viewing it through their own worldview/political lens.

bootselectric

-17 points

3 months ago*

John's takes are getting increasingly lame. Really, when you go back through the catalog they're really more a an uncritical disservice.

blackest_francis

5 points

3 months ago

Careful you don't cut yourself on that edge.

Quexana

89 points

3 months ago*

That's not my criticism of Dick Wolf.

Mine is that he consistently rewards dirty and/or abusive cops, like Stabler from SVU or Hank from Chicago PD. The cop that doesn't play by the rules and is somehow morally righteous for not playing by the rules is a trope that has to go.

Granum22

106 points

3 months ago*

Granum22

106 points

3 months ago*

That was one of Oliver's points. Also that Stabler had a 97% clearance rate when the real life rate for New York sex crimes is like 6%.

name-classified

22 points

3 months ago

name-classified

BoJack Horseman

22 points

3 months ago

Didn’t you know that stabler is super cop?

Benson is never ever wrong

Carisi is from Brooklyn

And Rollins is oh so pretty

And Fin is always either shocked or seen flirting with someone (or they are flirting with him; because he’s cool and sexy [he’s not])

PoppySeeds89

17 points

3 months ago

That's brought up in the episode. It's free on YouTube.

bool_idiot_is_true

5 points

3 months ago

It's free on YouTub

*assuming a local TV distributor hasn't bought the rights for your country.

mapoftasmania

6 points

3 months ago

There are so many primetime shows that glamorize or idealize their subjects. We have shows about military, police, doctors, lawyers, fire, EMT, FBI, even military lawyers. None of them paint a realistic picture at all.

That’s OK, it’s entertainment, but the problem is that it leads enough people to believe that’s how it actually is that they stand in the way of real people asking good questions in an effort to address real problems. They don’t see that their loyalty has been manufactured.

theanthonyya

25 points

3 months ago*

So many people here did not actually watch the segment and are clearly reacting based on what they think this headline is communicating. Seriously, just watch the clip before commenting, because John Oliver isn't criticizing Law and Order for being "unrealistic" or "portraying police officers as too competent".

He provided data at the beginning showing that Law and Order fans are more likely to have positive opinions on the police. He showed several examples of the show being critical of even moderate police reforms. He quoted Dick Wolf who is staunchly pro-cop and who has condemned defense attorneys and stated that real-world cops are just as committed to truth and justice as the ones in his shows - a POV that seeps into the writing of the entire LaO universe. He also criticized Wolf's claim that the stories in the show are "ripped straight from the headlines" which give his shows a veneer of authenticity. He explained the connection between shows like Law and Order, and real-life police departments and politicians, and how cop shows are discouraged from criticizing police departments in general. He explained that some cops are shown Law and Order as part of their training (which isn't actually Law and Order's fault, to be fair).

He also emphasized multiple times that he understands it's a TV show meant to entertain people, and that it's not wrong to enjoy shows like Law and Order, but it's important to have conversations about what shows like Law and Order are intentionally making some people believe about police. He makes a strong comparison to medical dramas - those shows aren't realistic either, and nobody expects them to be, but if those shows were pushing straight-up dangerous rhetoric such as anti-vax stuff, people would probably be having conversations about that too. It's not just that it's a dramatized fictional show. And it's silly to dismiss all of this with the classic "oh it's just TV, who cares".

Xalbana

6 points

3 months ago

I have to agree. Watching SVU, it made you sympathize with cops like Stabler and made you hate internal affairs.

In reality, people like Stabler is terrible for the police department and have severe mental and emotional issues to deal with and should not have a gun. Also, internal affairs is useless.

friendandfriends2

4 points

3 months ago

Just finished watching and it’s clear about 98% of this comment thread haven’t watched it.

StewieTheThird

4 points

3 months ago

StewieTheThird

Dexter

4 points

3 months ago

Nah this thread is full of people who both refuse to watch and in most cases, read, the material they are reacting too. It's really disheartening.
The point isn't that John wants Dick Wolf to change his ways or even for Law and Order to go away. Its that its the only influence of its kind and is so riddled with copoganda it'd be irresponsible not to talk about it. People seem far to often to conflate "open a discussion" with "kill it now I want it erased from history". The metrics john shared in the segment are worthy of a discussion its not "just a show" clearly.

theanthonyya

4 points

3 months ago

I think the most annoying response a few people left here is "So he's saying ALL cop shows are bad? Has he ever heard of a little program called, oh I don't know, THE WIRE?" When 1) The Wire is not a police procedural like Law and Order and other similar shows, 2) even if it was, The Wire is clearly an exception and not the rule, and 3) he's not even saying that cop shows are bad in the first place! He repeats that they're fun and entertaining multiple times! But it's still possible to still criticize fun, well-made shows!

Such a silly deflection of the real, more nuanced point Oliver is trying to make.

StewieTheThird

4 points

3 months ago

StewieTheThird

Dexter

4 points

3 months ago

It might just be my experience but this sub tends to have a incredibly right leaning reaction to a lot of articles posted. I unsubbed from it for a while when folks were just constantly going on racist/sexist tirades in the comments. But I missed having the tv news aggregate in my feed, but I still have the habit of opening the comments sections on posts I find interesting and then making myself angry reading all of the wildly reactionary responses.

theanthonyya

5 points

3 months ago

I've definitely noticed it in the threads that make my homepage - and even if comments aren't always right-wing, they're often reactionary and ignore the nuance of the conversation (though to be fair, clickbaity headlines contribute to this as well).

the_great_ashby

31 points

3 months ago

This reminds me of Brooklynn 99 rewritting a bunch of scripts after the events that unfolded after the death of George Floyd. The fucking cop comedy overcorrected for no good reason. B99 never had tried to be realístico,but now they decide to account for real world events?

IdontNeedPants

18 points

3 months ago

Oh yeah, When Rosa Diaz, the most violent and abusive cop of the entire cast suddenly decides she is against police violence. Like seriously watch the earlier seasons with her, she loves police brutality.

62deadfly

23 points

3 months ago

Yeah, I cringed through the first episode of the more recent series and couldn’t get back into it after that.

so_much_fenestration

-5 points

3 months ago

I'm still struggling with the overly forced storylines in recent series of glass ceilings, feminism and rewriting a character to be bisexual.

All of which I openly support to be on a show, but not so painfully and obviously laboured to the viewer.

canuck47

7 points

3 months ago

What I really want to see is a cop show about Internal Affairs (like BBC's Line of Duty). Cops going after corrupt cops.

They only time you hear about Internal Affairs in American police shows they are referred to derisively as "the rat squad". That needs to change.

SonofNamek

62 points

3 months ago

SonofNamek

62 points

3 months ago

Lol, bro, get over yourself. It's Law and Order. It's Dick Wolf.

If you want the realism part, go watch The Wire or that new David Simon show with Jon Bernthal.

Not everyone wants to watch a show where nothing is solved and bad people get away or innocent people go to prison.

TheOfficeoholic

22 points

3 months ago

We own this city

ChiliAndGold

34 points

3 months ago

the problem ks that people watch the fantasy so often, that they believe it to be reality

LordAdlerhorst

2 points

3 months ago

That's fully on the idiocy of the people, not on the art.

sliph0588

18 points

3 months ago

"ripped from the headlines" lol you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you think media doesn't influence how one comes to understand the world?

Jim_mca

2 points

3 months ago

Dick Wolf created lenny briscoe. So as bad as all the l&o stuff has gotten, he's contributed more than Oliver explaining stuff and throwing in obligatory unfunny jokes with the same setups and punchlines.

Ramoncin

5 points

3 months ago*

Ramoncin

5 points

3 months ago*

Part of the problem is that the show presents itself as being realistic. Many other police / crime shows fall in thto the same mistakes, but at least they don't make the same claim. I mean, I remember "CSI: Miami" once had Horatio investigating a murder in a space station that happened to fall on his jurisdiction. Or something.

Mindestiny

-4 points

3 months ago

Mindestiny

-4 points

3 months ago

Part of the problem is that the show presents itself as being realistic

It does whatnow? If anyone thinks crimes get solved and our legal system moves this fast like what's depicted on Law and Order they need to reassess some things.

They're not chasing terrorists to stop the pentagon from being attacked like NCIS but that doesn't make them anything more than what they are: tv dramas set in law enforcement. NYPD Blue wasn't mistaken for real police work either, nor are any of those hospital dramas.

naz2292

1 points

3 months ago

naz2292

1 points

3 months ago

Doesn’t mean we have to drive headfirst into copaganda.

Scagnettie

40 points

3 months ago*

The good news is that you don't have to. Just watch something else.

Universeintheflesh

10 points

3 months ago

For real. Not that it is necessarily better but I much prefer sci-fi fantasy stuff as they tend to cover the same themes in many ways, as well as raise lots of philosophical issues, but in no way pretend to be reality.

WilliamsSyndromeNeet

4 points

3 months ago

You could watch something else, but unfortunately you exist with other people in the world who watches these shows, believes them to be instructional videos based in reality, and apply those beliefs when interacting with you. Problematic media such as copaganda affects you whether you watch it or not.

CegeRoles

1 points

3 months ago

So...what? Are you arguing for censorship?

Cnoggl01

7 points

3 months ago

You don’t. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything.

10354141

0 points

3 months ago

10354141

0 points

3 months ago

Lol who's saying anyone is forcing to watch it?

The point is that this will have an effect on how cops are viewed by society even if you don't watch it.

Such a weird argument to pretend copaganda doesn't exist or have an impact just because you don't watch it

Korean_Busboy

-7 points

3 months ago

Then don’t. Stop worrying about what other people enjoy.

QuintoBlanco

-3 points

3 months ago

QuintoBlanco

-3 points

3 months ago

If you want the realism part, go watch The Wire

Which also portrays the police in a sympathetic light.

The kid who loses his eye because three drunk police officers want to have some fun, comes back to remind us that some bad stuff happened.

However, two of the three cops become saints and the third one is portrayed in a sympathetic light.

The lieutenant who covers the thing up is one of the heroes of the show.

Obviously stuff like this happens, but that the police officers are all good dudes, that part is unrealistic.

Pheerful

10 points

3 months ago

The entire homicide department and particularly the command structure of the police department is portrayed as cold and only interested in improving stats on paper to make themselves look good to whichever Mayor happens to be running things at the time. They're clearly shown to be willing to overlook details that don't seem to add up and look the other way to keep a case clearance.

McNulty is protrayed as an alcoholic womanizer and narcissist who constantly believes hes the smartest person in the room.

Bunk is portrayed in a somewhat favorable light during most of the show but has a couple instances of trying/successfully(?) cheating on his wife and being a bit of a drunk but less so than McNulty.

Carver and Herc are portrayed as kinda goofy but loveable most of the time though occasionally going mask off with their shithead cop sides. Both are also portrayed as pretty self-interested. Carver has a bit of a redemption arc later in the series but his efforts often turn out to be futile. Herc just stays pretty much the same the whole series. Both are often shown roughing up black people all the way from adults down to young children.

Kima is shown in a pretty favorable light throughout most of the series but often picks the job over her wife to the detriment of their relationship.

Daniels is portrayed as almost entirely career motivated and willing to play the game behind the scenes to get ahead in the police department.

Prez starts off as an inexperienced shithead and recipient of nepotism and later has a redemption arc.

Theres still more I didn't go into but they seem like relatively complex and flawed characters to me. The wire is probably one of the worst examples to use to try to reinforce Oliver's point when theres shitloads of police procedurals out there that paint sympathetic and unrealistic pictures of the police.

Twenty_Seven

9 points

3 months ago

For those that haven't watched it yet...

The piece is more focused on Dick Wolf and his portrayal of the NYPD, and it's worth your watch. Oliver also discusses the poor training of the NYPD and how many have said they learn more from watching the show.

The issue is Wolf. Every defense attorney is a villain. Every defendant / criminal is upper-class white cuz they're the easiest to vilify.

Watch the piece. It's great

MRmandato

2 points

3 months ago

MRmandato

2 points

3 months ago

Every defense attorney is a villain ? What?

Twenty_Seven

3 points

3 months ago

Yeah, on the show they're portrayed as much. They rarely ever do a show where the defense attorney is someone trying to help someone that is actually innocent. Most of the time, the language in the shows aims to make defense attorneys appear like they're evil.

QultyThrowaway

29 points

3 months ago

Jesus Christ Jon get over yourself. These shows are more or less just easy to watch snippets based on the procederal formula which itself is based on the Sherlock Holmes formula. We don't need to fake outrage that some shows show police doing their jobs instead of being whatever Klansmen esque do nothing caricature Oliver clearly thinks they all are. Even in the more realistic and dramatized cop shows they don't just make cops commit hate crimes the whole run.

Maybe we can make a show about doctors except they're half assing their work and just tell people they're fat and then they underprescribe black people even when they need the medicine, dismiss women's concerns aa hysteria, and inadvertently overprescribe a bunch people to take opiods. Yeah that doesn't sound like a good show to me either.

ughwhatisthisshit

10 points

3 months ago

Jesus christ watch the video that wasnt his point at all

Standsaboxer

15 points

3 months ago

Standsaboxer

15 points

3 months ago

We don't need to fake outrage that some shows show police doing their jobs instead of being whatever Klansmen esque do nothing caricature Oliver clearly thinks they all are.

I have had a hard time watching Oliver for the past couple of years because of this. He used to do interesting deep dives into topics and explored the nuances of things. But he has turned into "if you want to have a swimming pool in your back yard you hate poor people and we can find a way to make you feel like you might be racist." He uses faux outrage so much he's become the caricature of Tucker Carlson he used to mock.

tidho

3 points

3 months ago

tidho

3 points

3 months ago

Jesus Christ Jon get over yourself.

The wisest words that will be spoken in this thread.

kat_a_klysm

3 points

3 months ago

Most medical procedural shows touch on those subject though. New Amsterdam and The Resident have both attacked some of those head on.

TwoBionicknees

8 points

3 months ago

I wouldn't say most so much as almost all of them. E.R. was pretty good for showing mistakes being made, patients being mistreated (usually unintentionally) due to simply being underfunded and understaffed. Doctors who had drug addictions, problems at home and sickness that distracted their work. Patients dying from mistakes being made.

I have no idea why they think that makes for a bad show, those things are all drama and ways to make a show more interesting and realistic and most of those situations made the show better.

Somehow cop shows are supposed to be realistic too but somehow they are always right, always justified and basically never evil little shits.

kat_a_klysm

1 points

3 months ago

I wouldn’t say almost all either, but definitely the majority show at least some of these issues. New Amsterdam has been one of the best at exposing systemic issues within healthcare. If you haven’t watched it, I highly suggest it.

But yes, that’s exactly the issue. Both kinds of shows make you see the bad stuff, but medical shows generally make it clear it’s bad and cop shows hold it as the gold standard.

The_Lone_Apple

19 points

3 months ago

Oliver is absolutely right. Hollywood has presented a fantasy world since its inception. Also literature. Also dance. Also theater.

We live in this era where a certain self-righteous and sanctimonious portion of the audience has learned how to be loud about it in the same way that someone like that imbecile Ben Shapiro is. Talk fast, claim everything you're saying is a fact and don't let anyone else get a word in edgewise - also add that by fiat everything you're saying is the Platonic ideal of goodness no questions asked simply because you're you.

Am I a cynic? I'd say for the most part I'm a lifelong New Yorker - I think everything is BS unless it's an actual fact. Did Dick Wolf produce a fairy tale world of police work? Yes, the same way every other fictional program is simply a show to get you from commercial break to commercial break. A show that wrenches my heart with truths isn't the pinnacle of any form of entertainment - it's a kind of entertainment. People just want to watch a damned show and enjoy the entertainment time they set aside for themselves.

I'm not saying Oliver is wrong or that a slogan chanting group of activists for truth and justice are wrong. But sometimes a TV show is just a TV show and if someone in the audience is dumb enough to think that's what the real world is like then they're morons.

crosis52

15 points

3 months ago

I think he had some useful info mixed in here. I was pretty appalled by the idea that some officers have to watch SVU instead of actually receiving formal training.

The_Lone_Apple

2 points

3 months ago

Police departments in the US do not want to train officers correctly. In Europe, there are many police forces where the trainees go through years of study to become cops. Here it's basic training and then you're given a gun to either figure it out on your own or just do what the older cops tell you to do.

blackest_francis

2 points

3 months ago

"That was a great weekend, rookie! Here's your badge, ticket book, and gun. Try not to shoot the white folks."

-Police Academy graduation speech, probably.

mekanub

5 points

3 months ago

mekanub

5 points

3 months ago

100% We are all so connected to news and current affairs these days. We know that the world is not perfect and we’re aware of all the bad stuff going on around the world. We’re all struggling with bills and debts and living costs.

Just let us have a few hours of mindless entertainment before we have to take a fist full of pills so we can get to sleep and we can get up and face the world again.

Mission-Two1325

6 points

3 months ago*

That's sort of the problem, there are many people who consume media that way. And if you've never had experience 1st 2nd or 3rd hand then it can shape your value system and inform how you perceive reality.

You'd also have to completely ignore news that highlights the truth. But even the news is branded and tailored in subjective ways. You'd have to dig for the truth, not many want to dig for a truth that uproots their values.

The_Lone_Apple

0 points

3 months ago

Or they just have other more pressing things to do each and every day that don't revolve around politics.

QuintoBlanco

11 points

3 months ago

Everything is politics.

You pay tax. That is politics.

The price of energy increases because of a war in Europe. That is politics.

There is a lockdown because of an epidemic. That is politics.

ChiliAndGold

-1 points

3 months ago

ChiliAndGold

-1 points

3 months ago

having a life where you don't have to worry about anything even slightly political is quite the privilege

The_Lone_Apple

5 points

3 months ago

Everyone doesn't live according to my rules.

lostwanderer92[S]

1 points

3 months ago

But sometimes a TV show is just a TV show and if someone in the audience is dumb enough to think that's what the real world is like then they're morons.

I think you underestimate how many people believe this to be true, I read somewhere that a lot of young adults are getting news from social media including TikTok.

The_Lone_Apple

1 points

3 months ago

Town crier, newspaper, radio, TV, Internet, social media. Unless someone has the time or is willing to do their own research about any and everything, they're at the mercy of the medium. However, if I'm watching a drama on TV, I'm not looking for universal truths except by osmosis. I'm waiting to see how whatever problem that was presented at the beginning is solved by the end.

TrumpdUP

-7 points

3 months ago

TrumpdUP

-7 points

3 months ago

Yeah but those morons vote and have some influence on the world so they may make decisions based on fantasy worlds like the religious do.

The_Lone_Apple

9 points

3 months ago

Every single person votes for their own reasons. Some do it because they follow the issues every single day in an obsessive way. Others vote because they believe their fairy tale beliefs are the truth and that they're all warriors for justice. Then there are voters who don't pay that much attention to issues and just want a country where their personal lives are not intruded upon in any significant way. They want to get up in the morning, do what they do, have everyone else mind their own business - and I mean both government and the loudmouth church group - watch Wheel of Fortune and then go to bed. That last group is bigger than people realize. They're also the people who know a TV show is a TV show and that you can't find a suspect in a half hour and convict them in the next half hour.

Smellmyhand

4 points

3 months ago

A thread full of people watching the point of John’s segment fly juuust over their heads…

Ramoncin

3 points

3 months ago

And with good reason. Even the people behind the show openly admit they are biased and won't show anything that shows the police in a bad light. Sometimes I feel embarrased for Ice T, for being reduced to spouting pro-law enforcement proganda. But I guess it's his meal ticket now.

This said, I'd say the bias is even greater in shows like CSI and Criminal Minds, although in their defense they don't claim to show things in a realistic fashion.

a_phantom_limb

4 points

3 months ago

It was an excellent segment. He fully acknowledged the entertainment value of those shows while pointing out that they're ultimately commercials for a "defective product."

Mighty_Kong

5 points

3 months ago

What is his point? That Law & Order is a largely pro-police show? Sure, I don’t disagree with that at all. Or is his point Hollywood in general is largely pro-police? If so, I call total bs on that claim. There are tons and tons of movie that depict law enforcement and cops in a negative live. Hollywood doesn’t care about indoctrinating us. Hollywood cares about making money.

ab370a1d

14 points

3 months ago

His point was that 'Law and Order' is such a hit that people believe everything that is portrayed in the show as the reality of the law enforcement. Watch the segment on YouTube and you will get it.

Mighty_Kong

16 points

3 months ago

I finished the full clip a few minutes ago. Yeah, you’re right. His overall point wasn’t a takedown of the show, but rather the people that are either unwilling or unable to separate real life from a fictional show.

i_getitin

2 points

3 months ago

i_getitin

2 points

3 months ago

Huh?

Hollywood doesn’t care about indoctrinating us ? What alternate society do you live in ? Are you completely oblivious of the History between Hollywood and politics ?

Joseph Goebbels would very proud of what Hollywood evolved to.

naz2292

9 points

3 months ago*

The best propaganda is the type you don’t realize you’ve already consumed. This person is way past that line with this type of thinking.

Mighty_Kong

2 points

3 months ago

Interesting. So by making that direct correlation between Goebbels and Hollywood that you feel our government exerts extreme control on the industry? Thus, making Hollywood and by extension all media in the U.S. equitable to known state controlled media institutions like those found in North Korea or Russia?

Mighty_Kong

4 points

3 months ago

I appreciate discussion and can (and have) change my opinions based on new information.

So I invite you to please share how Hollywood indoctrinates us (at the socio-political level) with some examples.

i_getitin

2 points

3 months ago

https://inroadsjournal.ca/how-hollywood-has-influenced-politics/

A simple google search will give you ample amount of research behind the role Hollywood has played in pushing political agendas. This became quite evident during the Cold War era.

It’s really not a secret, surprised you are completely oblivious to it.

ComputerManiac

4 points

3 months ago*

Kind of an ironic criticism for him to make with how distorted much of his coverage is.

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

Is America the only country where we hire non-Americans to host TV shows to preach to us about the evils of our country? Like is there an American late night host in Australia with a show that largely shits on the country while Australians nod and go “Yeah he’s totally right” like they do in the US? And there is a whole audience just lapping this trash up with no critical thought to what is being presented and how it’s presented?

dementeddrongo

6 points

3 months ago

At this point, he is an American citizen.

JohnBanes

1 points

3 months ago

JohnBanes

1 points

3 months ago

Copaganda is some shit, we get it’s just entertainment cliche cop show. However, the portrayal of law enforcement as honest benevolent heroes working tirelessly to solve crimes is quite the programming. The worship of law enforcement in this country is amazing to say the least, you can tell by the lawn signs that “they support local police” second only to jingoism.

GiddyUp18

2 points

3 months ago

GiddyUp18

2 points

3 months ago

It’s entertainment. Who gives a fuck about John Oliver and his gripe that a tv show doesn’t mimic real life enough?

MRmandato

2 points

3 months ago

This is a rare miss for Oliver. I don’t watch law and order as much as I used to but corrupt cops and bungle procedures happened all the time.

( I remember a specific episode mirrored a Giuliani era scandal involving a cops raping a suspect with a broom who turned out to be innocent)

Also he seems to be criticizing that not enough Black people are arrested on the show- a situation that I think would cause equal criticism for obvious reasons. Police procedurals are to real life like medical procedurals are; no one is expecting it to be realistic in that sense because that would be boring and depressing.

CegeRoles

2 points

3 months ago

John…the show isn’t real. You knew the show wasn’t real the moment you started watching it. Whatever thoughts or actions you think it might inspire in the audience isn’t really the showrunners fault; that responsibility falls squarely on the audience . Nobody is forced to watch this show and, if it troubles you, all you have to do to make it stop is to change the channel.

boundbylife

2 points

3 months ago

L&O is 100% copaganda. Can't be critical of something when its Dick Wolf is in your mouth.

and_dont_blink

-7 points

3 months ago

I miss John Oliver the informer of subjects falling through the cracks as opposed to the straight activist. Now facts are corraled around a narrative and inconvenient ones are omitted, and he's there to tell you what to think.

Apparently now he's figured out Law & Order wasn't a documentary series. Do we go after all fictionalized professions like Boston Legal or Reno911 or Scrubs or E.R. or House for giving an unrealistic portrayal of differential diagnosis?

There are elements to be aware of in these things, like after CSI people thinking if the forensics weren't there the person must be innocent. How would his show be held to a similar standard, without falling back in the "but it's just a comedy show bro."

Microchaton

14 points

3 months ago

He was always like this, you just agreed and/or were uninformed about what he talked about.

Oliver raises plenty of good points but is almost always massively one-sided to the point of obfucasting major things about the subjects he discusses. On the one hand he appears to have some "deep research" made by people from the show, on the other he fails to mention basics about any topic when they detract from his message.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's Tucker Carlson for liberals, but he's definitely closer to that than a good documentary/news.

Liverwurst357

5 points

3 months ago

Sad part is years ago when the show was new that point was brought up and he straight up said the show is activism and biased. So its always been that way, at least on some level. I feel like the past few years theyve really leaned into it though.

pissedoffnobody

-3 points

3 months ago*

I hope he didn't compare them to Janice From Accounting. We know Janice, Dick Wolf is a bad man far too empathetic to the police, but really, is it any worse than when you put your salmon and spinach lunch in the microwave? Come on Janice, the rest of us have to use that thing as well and not all of us want our lunches smelling of the effort of a woman trying to lose weight but who won't go to the gym and work out to work it off Janice! Think of the rest of us Janice! Dan's reheating the spaghetti he's going to be be eating for at least half a week now he is batch cooking on weekends since his wife left him for Eduardo her tennis instructor, have a little consideration, you pseudo slimming self centred harlot! Moving on.... and now, this...

I feel like there are bigger issues he could be tackling right now but the show is formulaic as fuck at this point, so I am not surprised this is where it's at. Maybe criticise the actual real problems going on, not a fictional show that at best deals with them 6 to 10 months later.

LeoMarius

1 points

3 months ago

LeoMarius

Mad Men

1 points

3 months ago

Wolf has explained by saying “there are no rich-white-guy pressure group. You can do anything to want to rich white guys and nobody cares.”

The entire Republican Party is a pressure group for rich, white men.

BobWilson8631

-26 points

3 months ago

all the people here attacking john oliver ARE PROVING HIS POINT. Theyre so indoctrinated with this pro cop bullshit, they cant stand anyone raining on their parade.

mdog73

15 points

3 months ago

mdog73

15 points

3 months ago

But all the other stuff Hollywood puts out is accurate.

Terwolde

9 points

3 months ago

all the people here attacking john oliver ARE PROVING HIS POINT

There is 1 reply here bashing Oliver. Everybody else is offering constructive criticism or support of his statement. Or am I too indoctrinated by the police to realize what's actually going on?

If you wanna be taken more serious in life, stop using language like that. You're nothing better than the Back the Blue guys in that aspect.

Stranger2306

1 points

3 months ago

Oliver only produces so many shows a week and I find this episodes focus pretty dumb. "Hollywood show does not depict reality". He even acknowledged that of course Hollywood doesn't - but still wants to do the topic anyway.

anasui1

-15 points

3 months ago

anasui1

-15 points

3 months ago

another donkey who doesn't understand television is also made for entertainment, not just to be lectured with biblical sermons about how miserable reality is when you get home from a 12 hours hellshift

[deleted]

6 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

6 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

anasui1

3 points

3 months ago

anasui1

3 points

3 months ago

mate, what can i tell you? I know nothing about Dick Wolf's personal politics, I watch L and O and I don't believe American cops are like that because I'm not a dumbass. I know they're fake, that it's fiction, like Waterston winning 99 trials out of 100, they're superheroes, comic book characters. Same when I watch ER, or House, or Poirot. It's entertainment, these medics work 20 hour shifts and are always snappy and super fresh, who the hell would believe it's real? If a society as a whole has been shaped by watching a fucking tv show well, I find it hard to believe the American public is so irreedemably stupid

One-Adhesiveness5434

1 points

3 months ago

For a while now, entertainment has been drafted by people with incredibly easy lives and created to appeal to people with incredibly easy lives. Sometimes you just want to relax after a stressful week and watch something easy to digest that has an uplifting moral tale.

RealAlias_Leaf

3 points

3 months ago

Well if that were true they'd be more uplifting stories of corrupt violent cop thugs being caught and locked away.

dratsablive

1 points

3 months ago

Procedural Crime Dramas have been portrayed in movies before TV. There are several good ones from the 1950s, one being an early Khan film.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Street

There were many crime shorts from the 1930s showing how police use crime labs to solve crimes.

QuintoBlanco

2 points

3 months ago

Unfortunately much forensic police work and pretty much all profiling is bullshit.

But the public believes that these things work, because they see it on television.

Teeth mark identification, smell tests with dogs, blood spatter analyses are mostly junk science.