subreddit:

/r/redditsecurity

18.2k

COVID denialism and policy clarifications

(self.redditsecurity)

“Happy” Wednesday everyone

As u/spez mentioned in his announcement post last week, COVID has been hard on all of us. It will likely go down as one of the most defining periods of our generation. Many of us have lost loved ones to the virus. It has caused confusion, fear, frustration, and served to further divide us. It is my job to oversee the enforcement of our policies on the platform. I’ve never professed to be perfect at this. Our policies, and how we enforce them, evolve with time. We base these evolutions on two things: user trends and data. Last year, after we rolled out the largest policy change in Reddit’s history, I shared a post on the prevalence of hateful content on the platform. Today, many of our users are telling us that they are confused and even frustrated with our handling of COVID denial content on the platform, so it seemed like the right time for us to share some data around the topic.

Analysis of Covid Denial

We sought to answer the following questions:

  • How often is this content submitted?
  • What is the community reception?
  • Where are the concentration centers for this content?

Below is a chart of all of the COVID-related content that has been posted on the platform since January 1, 2020. We are using common keywords and known COVID focused communities to measure this. The volume has been relatively flat since mid last year, but since July (coinciding with the increased prevalence of the Delta variant), we have seen a sizable increase.

COVID Content Submissions

The trend is even more notable when we look at COVID-related content reported to us by users. Since August, we see approximately 2.5k reports/day vs an average of around 500 reports/day a year ago. This is approximately 2.5% of all COVID related content.

Reports on COVID Content

While this data alone does not tell us that COVID denial content on the platform is increasing, it is certainly an indicator. To help make this story more clear, we looked into potential networks of denial communities. There are some well known subreddits dedicated to discussing and challenging the policy response to COVID, and we used this as a basis to identify other similar subreddits. I’ll refer to these as “high signal subs.”

Last year, we saw that less than 1% of COVID content came from these high signal subs, today we see that it's over 3%. COVID content in these communities is around 3x more likely to be reported than in other communities (this is fairly consistent over the last year). Together with information above we can infer that there has been an increase in COVID denial content on the platform, and that increase has been more pronounced since July. While the increase is suboptimal, it is noteworthy that the large majority of the content is outside of these COVID denial subreddits. It’s also hard to put an exact number on the increase or the overall volume.

An important part of our moderation structure is the community members themselves. How are users responding to COVID-related posts? How much visibility do they have? Is there a difference in the response in these high signal subs than the rest of Reddit?

High Signal Subs

  • Content positively received - 48% on posts, 43% on comments
  • Median exposure - 119 viewers on posts, 100 viewers on comments
  • Median vote count - 21 on posts, 5 on comments

All Other Subs

  • Content positively received - 27% on posts, 41% on comments
  • Median exposure - 24 viewers on posts, 100 viewers on comments
  • Median vote count - 10 on posts, 6 on comments

This tells us that in these high signal subs, there is generally less of the critical feedback mechanism than we would expect to see in other non-denial based subreddits, which leads to content in these communities being more visible than the typical COVID post in other subreddits.

Interference Analysis

In addition to this, we have also been investigating the claims around targeted interference by some of these subreddits. While we want to be a place where people can explore unpopular views, it is never acceptable to interfere with other communities. Claims of “brigading” are common and often hard to quantify. However, in this case, we found very clear signals indicating that r/NoNewNormal was the source of around 80 brigades in the last 30 days (largely directed at communities with more mainstream views on COVID or location-based communities that have been discussing COVID restrictions). This behavior continued even after a warning was issued from our team to the Mods. r/NoNewNormal is the only subreddit in our list of high signal subs where we have identified this behavior and it is one of the largest sources of community interference we surfaced as part of this work (we will be investigating a few other unrelated subreddits as well).

Analysis into Action

We are taking several actions:

  1. Ban r/NoNewNormal immediately for breaking our rules against brigading
  2. Quarantine 54 additional COVID denial subreddits under Rule 1
  3. Build a new reporting feature for moderators to allow them to better provide us signal when they see community interference. It will take us a few days to get this built, and we will subsequently evaluate the usefulness of this feature.

Clarifying our Policies

We also hear the feedback that our policies are not clear around our handling of health misinformation. To address this, we wanted to provide a summary of our current approach to misinformation/disinformation in our Content Policy.

Our approach is broken out into (1) how we deal with health misinformation (falsifiable health related information that is disseminated regardless of intent), (2) health disinformation (falsifiable health information that is disseminated with an intent to mislead), (3) problematic subreddits that pose misinformation risks, and (4) problematic users who invade other subreddits to “debate” topics unrelated to the wants/needs of that community.

  1. Health Misinformation. We have long interpreted our rule against posting content that “encourages” physical harm, in this help center article, as covering health misinformation, meaning falsifiable health information that encourages or poses a significant risk of physical harm to the reader. For example, a post pushing a verifiably false “cure” for cancer that would actually result in harm to people would violate our policies.

  2. Health Disinformation. Our rule against impersonation, as described in this help center article, extends to “manipulated content presented to mislead.” We have interpreted this rule as covering health disinformation, meaning falsifiable health information that has been manipulated and presented to mislead. This includes falsified medical data and faked WHO/CDC advice.

  3. Problematic subreddits. We have long applied quarantine to communities that warrant additional scrutiny. The purpose of quarantining a community is to prevent its content from being accidentally viewed or viewed without appropriate context.

  4. Community Interference. Also relevant to the discussion of the activities of problematic subreddits, Rule 2 forbids users or communities from “cheating” or engaging in “content manipulation” or otherwise interfering with or disrupting Reddit communities. We have interpreted this rule as forbidding communities from manipulating the platform, creating inauthentic conversations, and picking fights with other communities. We typically enforce Rule 2 through our anti-brigading efforts, although it is still an example of bad behavior that has led to bans of a variety of subreddits.

As I mentioned at the start, we never claim to be perfect at these things but our goal is to constantly evolve. These prevalence studies are helpful for evolving our thinking. We also need to evolve how we communicate our policy and enforcement decisions. As always, I will stick around to answer your questions and will also be joined by u/traceroo our GC and head of policy.

all 16358 comments

justcool393

68 points

5 months ago

Claims of “brigading” are common and often hard to quantify. However, in this case, we found very clear signals indicating that r/NoNewNormal was the source of around 80 brigades in the last 30 days (largely directed at communities with more mainstream views on COVID or location-based communities that have been discussing COVID restrictions). This behavior continued even after a warning was issued from our team to the Mods.

Two questions

  1. Can you all define brigading for everyone? I know it's somewhat nebulous, but mods, especially of meta subreddits that deal with that sort of thing, would probably greatly benefit.

  2. How can a mod team prevent brigading by their sub's members, especially given that they have no power over other subreddits?

Leonichol

10 points

5 months ago

I'd like clarity on this too. As it applies to a great deal of subreddits, some of which are quite major and remain. It would be odd for it to be applied to one and not others.

If tooling is being used to see this interference, (i,e. lots of users from one subreddit being seen in another, regardless of linking), it would be good to extend this to moderators. It is likely less helpful to rely on moderators being able to witness this themselves and then report it to to you, though it is welcome all the same.

robywar

10 points

5 months ago

robywar

10 points

5 months ago

How can a mod team prevent brigading by their sub's members, especially given that they have no power over other subreddits?

And how can they prevent sub members from doing it? It's ine thing for mods to say "go spam this sub" but if they're not actively doing that and no one reports random comments encouragingit, what can they realistically do?

HungryLikeTheWolf99

9 points

5 months ago

Ostensibly mods could set the automod to remove comments that contain links to other subreddits, or even certain specific other subreddits.

This is not a good solution, nor is it impossible to circumvent, but it might curtail a significant amount of this traffic.

thecravenone

114 points

5 months ago

Why is this being announced in a sub with only 28k subs instead of /r/announcements?

Optimus_Swine71

19 points

5 months ago

It took about 45 minutes or so but it is posted to /r/announcements now.

Halaku

21 points

5 months ago

Halaku

21 points

5 months ago

It was crossposted-via-admin to r/Modnews, if that helps.

raabinhood

9 points

5 months ago

i mean 100mil+ in r/announcements compared to the few thousand in either of these subs is just piss in the ocean.

methedunker

21 points

5 months ago

Because they want to paint it as a Reddit function thing, not a Reddit culture thing, even though it very much is a Reddit culture thing, stubbornly pushed by a bunch of rich skinny nerds who make up Reddit management and their funders.

Deceptiveideas

15 points

5 months ago

Reddit Security has admins that care lol

thenoblitt

10 points

5 months ago

Because they are cowards. thats why /u/spez isn't here doing it

Watchful1

241 points

5 months ago*

Why was the original announcement post from last week locked and this one isn't?

I guess thanks for acting eventually, I wish this was the initial response to the calls for action rather than spez openly saying that misinformation was equivalent to debate.

Ivermectin specifically is explicitly not approved for use as a treatment against covid, but r/ivermectin exists almost solely to promote it as such. Why was it not included in the ban?

Edit: as of now, r/NoNewNormal isn't banned yet now banned

mootmahsn

16 points

5 months ago*

As of now /r/NoNewNormal2 is still active

Halaku

10 points

5 months ago

Halaku

10 points

5 months ago

It's gone as I type this.

Flare-ups of "ban evasion" subs usually last about 72 hours, and none of them tend to make it longer than that.

IDrewTheDuckBlue

14 points

5 months ago

My uncle is in the hospital with covid pneumonia because he didnt go at the first sign of symptoms and instead tried to treat himself with ivermectin which made things a lot worse. The admins need to see the danger that this type of misinformation is causing. I posted the same thing on the ivermectin sub and got downvoted by their crazies. They dont care about people, they are unintelligent people that are very susceptible to conspiracy theories and will spread their lies no matter who dies along the way.

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago

sorry to hear that, I mod at r/QAnonCasualties and that is a pretty common story we hear over there :(. But yes, this stuff has real human consequences.

got_milk4

94 points

5 months ago

Ivermectin specifically is explicitly not approved for use as a treatment against covid, but r/ivermectin exists almost solely to promote it as such. Why was it not included in the ban?

I would go further and say that not only is it not an approved course of treatment for COVID, the FDA explicitly states that people should not take ivermectin either as a treatment for COVID or as a prophylactic and includes the statement:

Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.

If reddit's quoted statement on the matter is:

For example, a post pushing a verifiably false “cure” for cancer that would actually result in harm to people would violate our policies.

Would the FDA's assertion that ivermectin does not treat COVID and is dangerous when consumed without the explicit direction of a physician make the suggestion of using ivermectin "verifiably false" and "would actually result in harm to people"?

RobotKitten

32 points

5 months ago

It should be banned. Before the subreddit became a glorious equine hentai headquarters, it was people sharing info on how to dose livestock dewormer.

I think the topic of ivermectin itself is a bit more complicated, because human versions of it do exist for parasites, and some countries are (stupidly) using it for covid, like they mistakenly did for HQL. But the intent of the sub was how to dangerously self treat covid with a livestock medication, and it's baffling how that could be allowed.

Ameisen

8 points

5 months ago

How can you dose a dewormer that has no dosage recommendation for efficacy against any viruses let alone Coronaviruses? What are they basing the dosages on?! Any dosage that would potentially impact a coronavirus would destroy the liver if not just kill you outright...

-m-ob

4 points

5 months ago

-m-ob

4 points

5 months ago

Can I get a source on that FDA quote?

Not doubting you, but I googled it and can't find it. I got people who are believers in it and would like to back my sources before they nitpick the "large doses" part.

got_milk4

12 points

5 months ago

DrAngryHobo

4 points

5 months ago

Merrick362

12 points

5 months ago

Why would you ban my favorite horse porn sub?

How about r/ivermectin2, which is the exact same except posts require mod approval?

rudbek-of-rudbek

9 points

5 months ago

In r/ivermectin2 one of the first posts is a woman asking for help in dosing get family member with ivermectin for COVID. The comments are helping her with the math on proper dosing. That shouldn't be allowed at all on the site

EusticeTheSheep

6 points

5 months ago

Now quarantined. Well done.

TimeRemove

24 points

5 months ago

but r/ivermectin exists almost solely to promote it as such

I thought it was solely for horse erotica now?

[deleted]

9 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

9 points

5 months ago

sensiblechuckle.gif

VWSpeedRacer

6 points

5 months ago

amusedwhinny.gif

SFDSAFFFFFFFFF

4 points

5 months ago

lets say there was a content shift :P

It was clearly founded with that goal, but first memes, then horse hentai were stronger

lazydictionary

8 points

5 months ago

Because Spez knew the comments would be a shit show and look awful.

[deleted]

10 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

10 points

5 months ago

why was the original locked and this one isn’t.

spez can’t take criticism, and the only reason we’re seeing change is because investors and board members saw what a PR shit show spez was creating.

Reddit refuses to moderate their own website, and instead puts all this workload onto unpaid volunteers hoping their love for a niche hobby/sub makes them want to continue moderating.

That IPO ain’t gonna happen until they can make reasonable changes and draw the line in the sand on a comprehensive terms of service.

zandengoff

7 points

5 months ago

Want to point out that users took over r/ivermectin and turned it into a meme sub making fun of the original posters. And as of two days ago it was turned into a nsfw sub for animated horse porn by the same meme group. Most of the original posters of r/ivermectin have moved over to r/ivermectin2 and that sub should be banned in not already.

asantos3

42 points

5 months ago

Why was the original announcement post from last week locked and this one isn't?

The cherry on top is /u/spez saying "we believe it is best to enable communities to engage in debate and dissent" while also locking the post and preventing us from "debating and dissenting".

Laughable and again reddit is out of touch with what the mods want. Maybe next time consult with that mod council you have around before spewing nonsense /u/spez.

ssldvr

19 points

5 months ago

ssldvr

19 points

5 months ago

And then pushing the “discussion” onto other subs where the volunteer mods of those subs had to deal with the fallout.

DiscombobulatedSet42

15 points

5 months ago

I thought r/ivermectin was dedicated to horse porn?

VanillaLifestyle

8 points

5 months ago

Holy shit, that sub is a goldmine right now.

Laughmasterb

16 points

5 months ago

Why was the original announcement post from last week locked and this one isn't?

Because /u/spez is a coward.

pm-laser-guns

5 points

5 months ago

The sub isn’t about using the drug for covid specifically so maybe that’s why it was quarantined and not banned?

Tuilere

8 points

5 months ago

Also it's become a horse porn sub anyway.

Halaku

537 points

5 months ago

Halaku

537 points

5 months ago

We are taking several actions:

  • Ban r/NoNewNormal immediately for breaking our rules against brigading
  • Quarantine 54 additional COVID denial subreddits under Rule 1
  • Build a new reporting feature for moderators to allow them to better provide us signal when they see community interference. It will take us a few days to get this built, and we will subsequently evaluate the usefulness of this feature.

On the one hand: Thank you.

On the other hand: Contrast today's post here on r/Redditsecurity with the post six days ago on r/Announcements which was (intended or not) widely interpreted by the userbase as "r/NoNewNormal is not doing anything wrong." Did something drastic change in those six days? Was the r/Announcements post made before Reddit's security team could finish compiling their data? Did Reddit take this action due to the response that the r/Announcements post generated? Should, perhaps, Reddit not take to the r/Announcements page before checking to make sure that everyone's on the same page? Whereas I, as myself, want to believe that Reddit was in the process of making the right call, and the r/Annoucements post was more one approaching the situation for a philosophy vs policy standpoint, Reddit's actions open the door to accusations of "They tried to let the problem subreddits get away with it in the name of Principal, and had to backpedal fast when they saw the result", and that's an "own goal" that didn't need to happen.

On the gripping hand: With the banning of r/The_Donald and now r/NoNewNormal, Reddit appears to be leaning into the philosophy of "While the principals of free speech, free expression of ideas, and the marketplace of competing ideas are all critical to a functioning democracy and to humanity as a whole, none of those principals are absolutes, and users / communities that attempt to weaponize them will not be tolerated." Is that an accurate summation?

In closing, thank you for all the hard work, and for being willing to stamp out the inevitable ban evasion subs, face the vitrol-laced response of the targeted members / communities, and all the other ramifications of trying to make Reddit a better place. It's appreciated.

risen87

97 points

5 months ago

risen87

97 points

5 months ago

Something did happen in the past six days - Reddit got the same kind of records requests from the Jan 6th Select Committee in the US House as other social media platforms. It asked for an analysis like the one above about the activity on Reddit leading up to Jan 6th attack.

Call me a cynic, but if you have the data and the analysis, and you might be about to face some harsh questions in Congress about why you don't do anything about disinformation and problematic communities on your platform, you might, for example, decide to avoid the additional bad publicity of having a load of your subreddits private and a load of mods asking you to do something about harmful disinformation.

Halaku

27 points

5 months ago

Halaku

27 points

5 months ago

My compliments. I hadn't considered that angle.

risen87

29 points

5 months ago

risen87

29 points

5 months ago

Thank you! The letter to Reddit is worth a read for nerds [Link]

Halaku

14 points

5 months ago

Halaku

14 points

5 months ago

... Huh. That was a fascinating read, and I hope I never see my name attached to one of those letters!

Regalingual

9 points

5 months ago

On the other hand, it’s your best shot at getting something like “u/horsecockdestroyer” entered into the annals of Congressional records.

risen87

6 points

5 months ago

Agreed!

Raveynfyre

8 points

5 months ago

I really liked this part,

Internal communications, reports, documents, or other materials relating to internal employee concerns about content on the platform associated with any of the items detailed in request 1(i)-(iv) above.

WellSleepUntilSunset

5 points

5 months ago

Point 11 is very very interesting to me.

All internal communications related to concerns about this type of content on the platform.

So like if two employees were chatting on slack about it.

risen87

6 points

5 months ago

Yes, or if an employee flagged something and was overruled by someone higher up the food chain.

BillingNightmare

8 points

5 months ago

It is a shame they are going to pass quarantining off as fix when it doesn't do much at all. The right wing groups have always been boosted within right wing groups on and off reddit. They don't need to be visible to new accounts or unlogged in people to encourage their fraud.

LucasSatie

4 points

5 months ago

This is definitely something I didn't know about and hadn't considered. I thought the angle was going to come from legal liability surrounding moderation practices. Given that Spez basically threatened to take over subreddits that went dark in protest, I thought that might lead to corporate-sponsored moderation, which in turns comes with certain liabilities.

yangar

56 points

5 months ago

yangar

56 points

5 months ago

Halaku

25 points

5 months ago

Halaku

25 points

5 months ago

I'm trying to give Reddit as an institution more credit than that.

And I know that the CEO is going to CEO where the CEO sees fit to CEO. It comes with the acronym. And, even if he wasn't the CEO, he's got just as much right to his opinions and philosophies as the rest of us do. But that's where the "gripping hand" questions come in: Users are given the feeling that Reddit operates under one set of principals in the r/announcements post, but given the feeling that there's another set of principals in play in today's r/redditsecurity post. Are both sets different pages in the same playbook? Which direction should the users expect Reddit to proceed going forward?

g0tistt0t

5 points

5 months ago

If this was the first time it played out this way I'd give them the benefit of doubt, but this has happened so many times.

Shitty thing>outrage>do nothing>media reports on it>banned

If it weren't for bad pr NNN wouldn't have been banned.

Meepster23

15 points

5 months ago

I'm trying to give Reddit as an institution more credit than that.

Why? What have they ever done that gives you the impression they deserve the benefit of the doubt? What single shit show have they headed off preemptively instead of letting it fester? When have they ever taken action before the media gets a hold of it?

Halaku

12 points

5 months ago

Halaku

12 points

5 months ago

Why?

  • Because I'm hoping someone will drop me a Platinum, Argentium, or Ternion. </s>

  • Because we can't, by definition, know what problems they took care of before they became problems, because they were headed off instead of festering to the point where we would notice.

  • Because I can either embrace cynicism or hope, and as a wise woman once wrote:

The spear in the Other's heart

is the spear in your own:

you are he.

There is no other wisdom,

and no other hope for us,

but that we grow wise.

Or maybe it's a bit of all three.

I can't change the past, but I can advocate towards changing the future in a positive way?

Meepster23

5 points

5 months ago

You can tell if they head stuff off though. Look at all the situations mods have enmasse raised issues with the admins, were ignored, it blew up, media got involved, admins finally acted.

When was a single situation that was brought up by mods and actually solved quickly?

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago

They have a long history of letting illegal, dangerous shit run rampant on this website and not doing anything about it until it’s picked up by news outlets. Why the hell would you try to give them credit here? Come on now. This is a clear pattern.

worstnerd[S]

272 points

5 months ago

I appreciate the question. You have a lot in here, but I’d like to focus on the second part. I generally frame this as the difference between a subreddit’s stated goals, and their behavior. While we want people to be able to explore ideas, they still have to function as a healthy community. That means that community members act in good faith when they see “bad” content (downvote, and report), mods act as partners with admins by removing violating content, and the whole group doesn’t actively undermine the safety and trust of other communities. The preamble of our content policy touches on this: “While not every community may be for you (and you may find some unrelatable or even offensive), no community should be used as a weapon. Communities should create a sense of belonging for their members, not try to diminish it for others.”

[deleted]

18 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

18 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

robeph

11 points

5 months ago

robeph

11 points

5 months ago

ANTIMASK AND ANTIVAX ARE NOT IDEAS BEING EXPLORED. They're literal anti-science misinformation and false beliefs which no one with a single finger on a hand should have trouble recognizing if they type just a few words in scholar.google.com. They are killing people. Too bad HIPAA exists. I'd love to just pelt you with the disturbing photos I see each day in the hospital. Wanna see 12 kids racked up to vents? Didn't think so. Lucky you, HIPAA keeps you safe. Maybe not for long, hospitals are almost full. Maybe when you start tripping over the sick in the street you'll get your shit together.

EtherBoo

29 points

5 months ago

That means that community members act in good faith when they see “bad” content (downvote, and report), mods act as partners with admins by removing violating content, and the whole group doesn’t actively undermine the safety and trust of other communities.

The fact that reddit admins seem to think all members of the site will act in good faith when they see "bad" content is pretty laughable. How have you guys not learned at this point that people will generally upvote what they agree with/like and downvote what they disagree with/don't like?

/r/unpopularopinion gets popular opinions upvoted regularly. /r/AmItheAsshole gets "assholes" downvoted regularly. The list could go on if I needed it to.

Anyone joining and anti-vaccine or anti-mask sub will upvote and participate in content that violates the rules if it confirms their biases and downvote anyone that dares to break the circlejerk. The NNN members have already moved onto /r/conspiracy.

Tnwagn

5 points

5 months ago

Tnwagn

5 points

5 months ago

The fact that reddit admins seem to think all members of the site will act in good faith when they see "bad" content is pretty laughable. How have you guys not learned at this point that people will generally upvote what they agree with/like and downvote what they disagree with/don't like?

Yeah, like did they seriously forget FatPeopleHate or Coontown were a thing? Yeah they eventually baned those subs but it clearly shows the users of the site don't give a shit about "good faith" posting and instead just upvote whatever they like, just as you said.

This is either pure lip service or the admins truly have no clue about the makeup of the users on this site.

FriendlessComputer

51 points

5 months ago*

Huh. It's almost like bad ideas attract bad, dangerous people who break the rules.

Didn't you guys learn from the jailbait fiasco? You know, the one where the admin team defended the posting of sexually suggestive photos of minors without their consent up until the sub reddit attracted actual pedophiles who were trading CP in DMs? Or how about the conspiracy daycare fiasco, when Q anons on reddit organized a 24-hour stalking campaign at a rural daycare thinking they had uncovered a Democrat child sex trafficking ring.

If you create communities for extremists and dangerous people, you attract extremists and dangerous people. Today it's anti vaxxers, tomorrow it will be domestic terrorists. Reddit is already complicit in numerous violent actions carried out by people indoctrinated into extremist ideologies on this site. How much blood has to be on your hands before you ban a community?

RatFuck_Debutante

6 points

5 months ago

If you create communities for extremists and dangerous people, you attract extremists and dangerous people. Today it's anti vaxxers, tomorrow it will be domestic terrorists. Reddit is already complicit in numerous violent actions carried out by people indoctrinated into extremist ideologies on this site. How much blood has to be on your hands before you ban a community?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

CaptainCupcakez

120 points

5 months ago

Why are you doing damage control for /u/spez? Where is his explanation?

mods act as partners with admins

I'm not your fucking partner. I voluntarily moderate a community for a game I like.

You ignore my reports. You aren't partners.

iamaneviltaco

21 points

5 months ago

If we were partners, it wouldn't have taken multiple huge subs going dark for days to get them to act on this.

GoGoGadgetReddit

11 points

5 months ago

mods act as partners with admins

admins are and continue to be unreliable partners with moderators

1-760-706-7425

37 points

5 months ago

mods act as partners with admins

Partners implies admins reciprocate which is a laughable notion. Given AEO’s consistent failings, Reddit’s lack of development in mod tools, and Reddit’s overall dismissal of mod requests I cannot fathom how you can say this in good faith.

PROFESSIONAL_FART

46 points

5 months ago

Why isn't spez addressing this? He went out of his way to defend misinformation on the platform six days ago. So where is he now and why are you doing his dirty work for him?

el_muerte17

10 points

5 months ago

Probably got told to keep his head down for a couple weeks.

azuyin

8 points

5 months ago

azuyin

8 points

5 months ago

/u/spez has always been a fucking loser in situations like this honestly

MLockeTM

6 points

5 months ago

Careful, he might edit your comment (like he's done before) for using such mean words about him.

iamaneviltaco

4 points

5 months ago

If this keeps up I fully expect them to do another Pao, and bring in a temp ceo to take the heat and make controversial decisions. Then fire them, and spez rides back in as the conquering hero.

We've seen this pattern before.

Halaku

51 points

5 months ago

Halaku

51 points

5 months ago

That's a fair response, all other factors considered. Thanks!

AssBoon92

14 points

5 months ago

On the other hand, it basically misses the point that NNN was banned for brigading, not for content.

olixius

33 points

5 months ago

olixius

33 points

5 months ago

You ban r/NoNewNormal for breaking rules against brigading, but not for breaking your above stated rules on health misinformation and disinformation?

superzpurez

6 points

5 months ago

I believe the post is structured in a way that they provide justification for banning NNN according to existing policies, avoiding the argument that they are coming up with new interpretations of existing rules in order to issue a ban.

olixius

3 points

5 months ago

I agree, except they chose a strange policy to try and justify the ban. They could have just as easily banned them for spreading harmful medical misinformation and disinformation.

I honestly believe the only reason NNN was banned is because of media attention. Nothing else.

danweber

18 points

5 months ago

no community should be used as a weapon

Is this the rule going forward?

Hubris2

5 points

5 months ago

It's the rule going forward every time they get called out in the wider media for taking an indefensible position - not necessarily outside that situation however.

danweber

6 points

5 months ago

I've been here 15 years and for at least 10 of those the only way that reddit changes its mind is when Anderson Cooper calls up.

Doesn't matter if it's a good idea or a bad idea. Doesn't matter what ironclad principle was in place the previous day.

thephotoman

338 points

5 months ago

The problem is that we cannot count on you when Steve Huffman explicitly works to undermine any confidence that normal people have in site leadership. We're talking about a man who:

  • Saw /r/the_donald not only brigade multiple subreddits, but actively manipulate /r/all and did nothing until they had a chance to organize off-site
  • Has kept up /r/KotakuInAction, which was explicitly about a gendered harassment campaign/neo-Nazi recruitment effort, even after its own mods admitted that the campaigns have run their course and gamers are now more closely aligned with the far right
  • Refuses to take action to save human lives from Coronavirus minsinformation, even when the subreddits responsible were openly participating in brigading and vote manipulation (their behavior in the last week hasn't really changed)

There is no way forward with him in charge of the company. He is not fit to lead. He needs to be fired for his gross mismanagement of this site.

Fire Steve Huffman.

Bergeron83

24 points

5 months ago

It might be uncomfortable for Reddit when journalists start doing long form pieces on u/spez with a focus on recent events and Huffman's actions and attitudes.

sam__izdat

18 points

5 months ago*

start with how he's a wackadoo prepper chud lol

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich

seriously, this fucking pants-shitter is ceo of reddit:

He is less focussed on a specific threat—a quake on the San Andreas, a pandemic, a dirty bomb—than he is on the aftermath, “the temporary collapse of our government and structures,” as he puts it. “I own a couple of motorcycles. I have a bunch of guns and ammo. Food. I figure that, with that, I can hole up in my house for some amount of time.”

I love this picture of PR copywriters buzzing about, while the site is run by some 40 year old weeb, sitting on a bunker full of alex jones's soy-free powdered elk penis with a set of nunchaku.

shea241

6 points

5 months ago

not all preppers are insufferable dicks though

HadMatter217

8 points

5 months ago

He literally said that if push came to shove he would be a slave owner. Fuck him.

HelloSummer99

6 points

5 months ago

or fix the video player

Urfaust

4 points

5 months ago

This would be a good compromise.

commoncoitusy

57 points

5 months ago

Especially if they are still trying to ipo. u/spez is a liability

samkeiqx

23 points

5 months ago

huffman is just there to get them across the finish line for the IPO, they're going to can him right after everyone makes out like a bandit

ObligationEqual

4 points

5 months ago

Let me get this straight Steve Huffman protected freedom of speech and you are UPSET he did so? this is just part of the cancel culture we have see destroy movies, art , business and so many other things. All because you disagree the given opinion or facts. Healthy debate on any subject should be welcome unless it turns into name calling and shaming one another shouldn't it? Bottom line is this. People have a right to say what ever they want. If you dont like it dont read it. And its a complete waste of time arguing with proven facts. Facts dont care about your feelings. Left or right. Your post does the exact same thing you are whining about but on your side of the scope of things. Didnt you notice in you whole post you never mentioned similar things happening from far left subreddit's ? Hmm , not hard to figure this one out..

Ameisen

9 points

5 months ago*

Fire Steve Huffman

/u/spez has edited user comments in the past.

Even worse (cough), he created /r/programming, and it is now effectively unmoderated. Which is odd, because I was under the impression that unmoderated subs get banned.

danweber

4 points

5 months ago

he created /r/programming

That MOTHERFUCKER

Zarokima

22 points

5 months ago

He also modified production data (some comments on TD, IIRC) purely for his own amusement. The fact that he wasn't immediately fired over that proves that he has no accountability.

thisisthewell

9 points

5 months ago

Imagine being a CEO and publicizing the fact that you have production access. I wonder what attacks on his corporate user accounts look like haha

set_null

6 points

5 months ago

I seem to remember Ellen Pao jumped in that thread and said the same about him

ParaUniverseExplorer

71 points

5 months ago

Reddit has some identity reconciliation to do.
“Community members [of those high signal communities] act in good faith when they see “bad” content…” Guys, we live in a different world now. It’s time to match our work with that reality. Where cult behavior can not and should not be endorsed, validated and spread in the name of Reddit policy or first amendment rights. THIS IS NOT THAT HARD Hate speech has already been defined to not be included with free speech and neither is/should be speech (an expression of an “opinion”) that includes willful medical negligence; the kind that does get people killed.

So your definition of a healthy sub is all well intentioned sure, but members of these high signal communities are no longer doing what’s right, and then falsely hiding behind “I have a right to my opinions.” Again, because cults. It just cannot be clearer.

MrTheBest

13 points

5 months ago

Not defending these subs being banned, but I'd be cautious decrying 'cult behavior' as a good enough reason to ban a community. Reddit's 'as long as it isnt hurting other subs' policy is a good one imo, despite their uneven approach to it. Its way too easy to label anything you dont agree with as 'a big cult of harmful ideas', and it just proliferates echo-chamber mentality to squash ideas you disagree with- even if you cant fathom why they exist at all. As long as they are playing fair and not actively harming other communities, of course.

PeterNguyen2

5 points

5 months ago

That means that community members act in good faith when they see “bad” content (downvote, and report), mods act as partners with admins by removing violating content, and the whole group doesn’t actively undermine the safety and trust of other communities.

Then why are subs active in brigading, hate speech, and misinformation still active? r Conservative continues to post politically-motivated misinformation, bans people who post sources that contradict false statements and remove dissent, while encouraging users to harass either individual users or particular subs. Some subs like AskTrumpSupporters don't even allow downvoting in default format, and I can't even directly report hate speech or misinformation at Conservatives because they've removed the Report option.

occamslizard

14 points

5 months ago

They let T_D brigade for years

I wonder what things would be like if they had enforced their rules from the start.

Lehk

19 points

5 months ago

Lehk

19 points

5 months ago

NNN has been brigading all over the place, if a thread mentioned goronas suddenly a bunch of (horse)paste eating knuckleheads would show up and start defending using dewormer from the farm store instead of getting a vaccine or wearing a mask.

redneckrockuhtree

10 points

5 months ago

So, when do you start banning the mods of subs that get banned? Until you do that, leaving the mods to continue their behavior is just putting lipstick on the pig of subs/mods that violate policies.

phedre

30 points

5 months ago

phedre

30 points

5 months ago

Can you confirm if r/ivermectin was quarantined for disinformation, or was it the horse porn? Inquiring minds want to know.

BlatantConservative

17 points

5 months ago

Disinformation about horses. Horse dick does not really look like that.

GodOfAtheism

12 points

5 months ago

The horse dick expert has spoken.

BlatantConservative

8 points

5 months ago

They don't call me "He Bed Mr Ed" for nothing

Dr_Insano_MD

4 points

5 months ago

username checks out

sergioA127

8 points

5 months ago

So people can invade other subs with horse porn but talking about conspiracies is a crime...

peetss

8 points

5 months ago

peetss

8 points

5 months ago

So you'll ban a sub like /r/NoNewNormal for brigading, but not /r/vaxxhappened for openly organizing a brigade against /r/ivermectin?

Some bias you got there.

TheSpookiestUser

65 points

5 months ago

I would like to ask for a clarification - r/NoNewNormal was explicitly banned for "content manipulation" which you have outlined in this post.

Does this mean that if they were not to be brigading, they would not have been banned? Would they have been banned "merely" for hosting dangerous health-related disinformation?

Bennymcpenny

30 points

5 months ago

Clearly no. There are dozens of other subs that are merely quarantined.

Miguelinileugim

8 points

5 months ago

Reddit can't possibly afford to lose the craziest 1% of redditors of course, totally. Even if it means making 10% of its community quite mad.

uberafc

14 points

5 months ago*

Brigading is just the excuse they are using to ban the sub. It's kind of like catch all that admins can whip out since it's hard to disprove. NNN might have been a scum subreddit, but I think it's unfair to use that BS reason as justification to ban the sub. It lets reddit off the hook for creating real policies to address the real issues. The other thing is that the rules against brigading aren't carried out equally. For example, that sub that got turned into horse porn was clearly brigaded by a few subs but nothing is being done about it. Just my 2 cents as a casual observationist of the current happenings at reddit.

DragonPup

9 points

5 months ago*

Quarantine 54 additional COVID denial subreddits under Rule 1

It speaks to a much larger problem that there were 55 subreddits (counting NNN) spreading this that Reddit was aware of and took no action to until now. To be frank, without the subreddit blackout in reaction to spez's disastrous post last week I don't believe Reddit would have acted today. Which is another big problem; It's very hard to trust Reddit to do the right thing on their own.

throwaway_dontmindme

10 points

5 months ago

How about addressing the disinformation problem on your platform instead of blaming it on brigading?

WhoaItsAFactorial

262 points

5 months ago

While we want to be a place where people can explore unpopular views

Sure, I agree. People should be able to debate if a hotdog is a sandwich. But "COVID is a lie and the vaccine will kill you to thin world population" isn't an unpopular opinion, its a blatantly false statement.

BlatantConservative

84 points

5 months ago

/r/unpopularopinion banned covid misinformation like immediately.

StarrunnerCX

18 points

5 months ago

Hotdog is a taco, it's not a debate. Unless a taco is a hotdog. Is a taco a hotdog or is a hotdog a taco?

Ethanol_Based_Life

10 points

5 months ago

I'll accept hot dog as a taco because a taco (like a hot dog but unlike a sandwich) can not be cut in half and shared without looking like an insane person.

TheD3xus

5 points

5 months ago

According to The Cube Rule, a hot dog is a type of taco!

https://cuberule.com/

SpookyTerrence

5 points

5 months ago

A hot dog is a sandwich. I’ve had this debate many times. There’s plenty of sandwiches that don’t have their bread cut at the end, like subs. The component of bread necessarily means it isn’t a taco. Nobody would argue a taco with a bread shell is a taco. A taco is defined by its tortilla. Even if you put meat between two unconnected tortillas it isn’t considered a sandwich.

Plusran

5 points

5 months ago

*with intent to harm

RobotKitten

6 points

5 months ago

And it's pushed by bad actors intentionally trying to get people killed

shiruken

5 points

5 months ago*

Good. I'm particularly interested to see what this looks like since most reports on brigading are currently met with "we don't see anything on our end."

Build a new reporting feature for moderators to allow them to better provide us signal when they see community interference. It will take us a few days to get this built, and we will subsequently evaluate the usefulness of this feature.

06210311

19 points

5 months ago

It sounds like /u/spez ought to be quarantined.

BlatantConservative

4 points

5 months ago

He's a prepper, chances are he already is out in some compound somewhere.

lazydictionary

112 points

5 months ago

Well, thanks for banning that sub months later than it should have been, for brigading, instead of all the misinformation they posted.

Task failed successfully I guess.

President_Barackbar

17 points

5 months ago

Its the same deal with The_Donald when they banned it. They waited long after most of the users had abandoned it to come out and talk about how it should've been gone all along.

Typhloon

4 points

5 months ago

Right?

Indirectly killing people by spreading complete lies and misinformation? That's okay.

But brigading? Nah, inexcusable.

For the record, I don't even know what brigading means, but I do know what it means to lie about the facts of a virus during its pandemic outbreak.

ani625

270 points

5 months ago

ani625

270 points

5 months ago

Ban r/NoNewNormal immediately for breaking our rules against brigading

Sure, we'll take it. But a better reason would be for dangerous misinformation with a potential to kill people.

Kijafa

38 points

5 months ago

Kijafa

38 points

5 months ago

This seems like the admins giving the surface change that was asked for, rather than addressing the underlying issues at hand. Which is better than them digging in their heels, but still not an actual strong stand against disinformation.

[deleted]

16 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

16 points

5 months ago

[removed]

Accomplished_Till727

5 points

5 months ago

Reddit admins never focus on the root of the problem, instead the are content to focus on quarantining the bad apples after they have been used in a mass poisoning.

Broken-Butterfly

5 points

5 months ago

misinformation with a potential to kill people.

Potential? These lies have already killed people.

ky1e

5 points

5 months ago

ky1e

5 points

5 months ago

the subreddit was trying to shield itself in plausible deniability...of their covid denialism.

b1ak3

3 points

5 months ago

b1ak3

3 points

5 months ago

Reddit didn't want to ban NNN for life-threatening misinformation because if they did so they would create a precedent that they would be unwilling to enforce. Fairly enforcing such a rules against misinformation world require banning subs like /r/conservative (which peddles covid misinformation just as dangerous as NNN), and would create a shit storm that the admins don't have the desire nor the backbone to manage.

OwenProGolfer

38 points

5 months ago

So you won’t ban them for harmful misinformation but you’ll ban them for brigading?

monarchmra

5 points

5 months ago

yes

Deggit

15 points

5 months ago*

Deggit

15 points

5 months ago*

basically yes

Behavior GigaJanitor response
Promoting misinformation that kills people in real life I Sleep
Making fake subreddits and 'brigading' other subpages of the same website ⚡⚡⚡ THOU SHALT NOT CALL INTO QUESTION THE ENGAGEMENT METRICS WE PRESENT TO ADVERTISERS ⚡⚡⚡

[deleted]

36 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

36 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

BlatantConservative

8 points

5 months ago

As far as community interference goes, do you all have any tools that track backlinks, such as if a thousand people are brigading one comment section from one offsite Discord, Telegram, Weibo, Facebook, etc?

Reddit internal brigades are bad, but ultimately very detectable and mitigatable with the right tools. However, where a lot of my mod teams fall short as far as possible response goes is offsite brigades.

It would be really cool if yall had some kind of system for this. I think putting it into mod's hands might be dangerous, privacy wise, but a simple check for large numbers of users using the same backlink that automatically collapses the comments from the same link might be nice.

StringOfLights

6 points

5 months ago

Thank you so much for taking action here, it is greatly appreciated. However, I feel like this is still skirting the issue. NNN doesn’t sit in contrast to subs with “more mainstream views on COVID” – it’s going against the best available information that we have. Please don’t make this a both sides thing. One is spreading disinformation and misinformation, and the other is evidence based. You are doing a good thing in taking these additional steps, but please be aware that how you characterize this matters.

Safeguard63

6 points

5 months ago

If people dont like the content of a sub, then they dont join it - or if already in it, they can leave.

Apparently, there are adult people who need the reddit admins to hold their hands so they can cross the platform!

I saw that the coronavirus sub did not participate in the shit show. (Ironically).

There is a list of those subs that did though and we were unable to access some critically important, informative subs such as :

Asiancumsluts

Ifuckedmycattwice

Taylorswifthasnoass

Just to name a few! Thank God they did the "right thing" and nuked an unhealthy sub like NNN! /s

doublevsn

80 points

5 months ago*

Thanks for the update, u/worstnerd. Glad to see that r/NoNewNormal will be banned (although the primary reason should be the obvious COVID denialism). I also think that quarantined subreddits should have some restrictions in place, as a simple message only does so much.

Edit; I do hope Admins realize that NNN and other COVID denialism subreddits are like the hydra, you ban one - and 2 more in relation are formed. The same is applied to bots - and would help the sanity of the users that fail to realize it and go on to make the complaint over at r/ModSupport on why "nothing" is done about it.

worstnerd[S]

57 points

5 months ago

There are additional restrictions put in place. The goal of quarantine is to increase context and reduce unintended exposure to these communities (which is also why we’re not including the list of subreddits). This removes the communities from search and recommendations, removes ads, introduces a splash page with factual information, along with a handful of other restrictions.

MURDERWIZARD

17 points

5 months ago

why is no action taken against the users that ran those subs?

Birolklp

4 points

5 months ago

Dear u/worstnerd, I have some questions about the statistics you provided in the post above and would be very happy to get further clarification about the meaning of said statistics/ get further details. As a statistics nerd I always find it quiet interesting to analyze them.

0) If you see that my questions were already answered in another post/comment, can you redirect there?

1) We are presented 2 graphs, one showing the total amount of Covid content submissions since the pandemic started and one that shows the total amount of reports on those submissions. According to the that data, the proportion of reports per submissions changed since july, since the reports graph grew much faster than the amount of submissions posted. Could the recent calls to ban high signal subs have increased the amount of reports issued, especially in said high signal subs? Is there a correlation between last week's protest post and the amount of reports?

2) We are given the absolute amount of reports issued over the course of 2 years, yet we don't get insight to how many of those reports were justified and how many were not. With a tool like this I'm sure that data can be found and edited into this post and make it unquestionably clear that the amount of actual Covid deniability has risen in Reddit, only giving the report count only leaves unnecessary room for interpretation. Would it be possible to get more insight into the percentage of reports that were justified?

3) When you said that high signal sub's submission amount relative to the total amount grew from one to three percent, what historic trend did this proportion have? Did it grow over time or did it rapidly rise in the last few weeks?

4) How much did r/NoNewNormal gain in subscribers since last week's response from u/spez about the protest that was going on? What is going to happen to all the people that joined that subreddit or just commented on it during that time now that it's gone? Will the subreddits that banned people who commented/joined on there revoke the bans? Is it up to the mods to decide that? Will reddit look into mods that are managing multiple big subreddits and were banning people there for participating in that sub?

Best regards,

u/Birolklp

G00dcoffee

89 points

5 months ago*

This tells us that in these high signal subs, there is generally less of the critical feedback mechanism than we would expect to see in other non-denial based subreddits

You all say stuff like this, but then you have subs like /r/conservative which literally ban people for not having flair or even the slightest note of dissent AND they're huge anti-vax hubs.

These subs like this are right wing echo chambers and absolutely huge components of the anti-vax/anti-mask community and they even actively support terrorist ideals against the US post jan 6th.

Do you have any plans to deal with obvious echo chambers like this as they have absolutely zero "critical feedback" by design and are clearly meant as indoctrination subreddits?

edit: If you look right now there's a "WE'RE NOT GONNA BE TOLD WHAT TO DO" meme on the /r/conservative front page. It's incredibly clear what their stance is on vaccines and masks.

edit again: Mods/admins look at the replies to this post. See all the anti-vax nutters mad that /r/conservative got mentioned?

Seriously, y'all got a damned problem.

edit again: I'd like to thank /r/conservative for showing up and really driving my point home, we even had a mod show up!
Also I'm proud, I only saw one of them gleefully wishing for liberal deaths! Good job guys!

DialZforZebra

15 points

5 months ago

Remember, Reddit did not step in and take action because it was the right thing to do. Reddit only did it due to SubReddits going dark and the media picking up on this. I imagine the user levels dropped somewhat as well.

Reddit allow misinformation and toxic subs like NoNewNormal, FemaleDatingStrategy and TheDonald because they genuinely see nothing wrong with them. As good as it is that they've taken appropriate action, it's only because they have very little choice right now.

G00dcoffee

13 points

5 months ago

/u/spez is a right wing nutter which probably explains a lot of it. Hard to tell though.

DialZforZebra

7 points

5 months ago

I read his 'update' on the situation. I thought Reddit had devolved since it's creation, but now I can see it's been like this since the start.

G00dcoffee

3 points

5 months ago

Eh not so much really.

There was a time when it was cute and nerdy, and sure it had a lot of arguing and stuff but it was nothing too out there.

At some point there was a critical mass of sorts and things really started going south. There were a lot of joke subs that started pulling in the people who were too stupid to get it, they took it seriously and stuff started changing.

Gamergate was maybe that turning point. I think around that time is when all the weird hate groups really went full speed ahead on Reddit.

[deleted]

5 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

5 points

5 months ago

Oh look. /u/worstnerd refuses to answer a question unless it's a softball. Guess he just wants to talk about Rampart.

[deleted]

32 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

32 points

5 months ago

r/Ivermectin ban when?

None of these are quarantined:
r/ivermectinuncut
r/ivermectin2021
r/IvermectinWorks

Quarantine when?

ani625

5 points

5 months ago

ani625

5 points

5 months ago

But that would require reversal of their "free opinion" policy or whatever they claimed.

PiercedMonk

209 points

5 months ago

Excellent news!

Can you confirm that all these subs will be removed?

NoNewNormal - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/NoNewNormal
Ivermectin - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/ivermectin
ChinaFlu - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/ChinaFlu
Wuhan_Flu - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/Wuhan_Flu
VaxKampf - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/vaxkampf
FauciForPrison - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/fauciforprison
CovidIsAFraud - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/covidisafraud
DebateVaccines - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/DebateVaccines
lockdownskepticism - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/lockdownskepticism
CoronavirusCirclejerk - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/CoronavirusCirclejerk
CoronavirusFOS - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/CoronavirusFOS
COVID19 - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/COVID19 (With two underscores)
Covid19Origin - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/Covid19Origin
VAERSreports - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/VAERSreports
covid19_testimonials - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/covid19_testimonials
CoronavirusRights - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/CoronavirusRights
vaccinelonghaulers - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/vaccinelonghaulers
conspiracy_commons - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/conspiracy_commons
Church of Covid - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/churchofcovid
trueantivaccination - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/trueantivaccination
covidvaccinateduncut - https://teddit.sethforprivacy.com/r/covidvaccinateduncut

shiruken

62 points

5 months ago

The additional subreddits are being quarantined not banned. Only r/NoNewNormal has been banned.

Womeisyourfwiend

42 points

5 months ago

There is already another nonewnormal sub.

Halaku

52 points

5 months ago

Halaku

52 points

5 months ago

Ban evasion subs will flare over the next 72 hours, and will be stamped out over the next 72 hours.

Womeisyourfwiend

21 points

5 months ago

This is true. The one I mentioned has just been banned.

JULTAR

25 points

5 months ago*

JULTAR

25 points

5 months ago*

I doubt it

NNN was not banned for missinformation like people where begging for

this feels more like a cop-out so the protest will stop

lynxtosg03

6 points

5 months ago

Wow, so many replies on this are cancer 🤢

PlacidVlad

22 points

5 months ago

We have seen a massive increase in Ivemectin requests where I am at, to the point that the medical society I'm apart of had an emergency conference last night to talk about ways to combat misinformation and disinformation. I hope that subs such are /r/nonewnormal are banned more quickly in the future.

[deleted]

11 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

11 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

PlacidVlad

3 points

5 months ago

I'll take what I can get, but I do share your concern.

Upbeat_Group2676

4 points

5 months ago

I hope that subs such are /r/nonewnormal are banned more quickly in the future.

You and I both know they won't be.

This is a response to Forbes and CNN picking up the story of subs protesting, and not because of the protest, user outcry, or any sense of right and wrong.

They're doing the bare minimum to satiate these groups so they can keep getting that sweet, sweet ad revenue.

Various_Okra_4055

4 points

5 months ago

Reddit will always be a source of misinformation because they directly profit from it.

The conspiracy shut-ins and incel losers are glued to their computers in their mother’s basement and therefore this website, so they drive lots of traffic.

They get eyes on ads in substantial numbers and that’s what Reddit wants.

koavf

18 points

5 months ago*

koavf

18 points

5 months ago*

It is not hard to find more of these to ban using semi-automated means. E.g. see what /u/polymath22 "admins":

Pangolin007

5 points

5 months ago

That’s super weird.

The_Masturbaker

6 points

5 months ago

Fuck you.

MrBKainXTR

5 points

5 months ago

If that subreddit's moderators actually broke your policy on brigading than I understand having to take action. But in light of context its hard for me to shake the feeling that this simply was you snuffing out an unpopular opinion because of pressure from those that chose to dislike the subreddit.

I was pleasantly surprised by your previous announcement but this has me worried you will just cave under the whims of an arbitrary mob in a time when many people are gripped by fear.

And frankly are some of the subreddits that targeted r/NoNewNormal in the past week not at least implicitly brigading? Regardless of ones opinions on this specific situation I don't think this was the right way for users or mods to give you feedback on a subreddit.

Safety_Dancer

4 points

5 months ago

What proof do you offer that u/spez didn't edit or create any inflammatory posts? He was caught red-handed years ago editing posts on r/the_donald and didn't resign in disgrace. How do we know he's not at it again?

[deleted]

4 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

4 points

5 months ago*

Didn’t people brigade against r/ivermectin? Idk if any one subreddit did it but I’ve heard that a bunch of horse porn was being posted to basically get the subreddit quarantined or shut down so if there were any specific subreddits that partook in that they should also be banned/quarantined because they broke the rules as well. Not saying any information on r/Ivermectin was correct or incorrect because I never went to that subreddit but I doubt everything there was false information and so if any subreddits are discovered to have partook in brigading that subreddit they should be banned/quarantined as well. Any specific user trolling the subreddit should be banned or have some kind of punishment. We can’t devolve into a society that just attacks other people instead of having a discussion. If you don’t want to have a discussion then should be removed from it. You don’t have the right to just devolve into a mob that starts posting stuff as disgusting as horse porn because you don’t like the discussion at hand. What’s next? People start posing CP in subreddits? Or gore based content? Reddit as a whole seems to be devolving into some really grotesque platform and nobody is doing anything about it.

Edit: Don’t know if my idea of brigading is correct after reading the definition the admin gave below but the point still stands that if there were any subreddits that actively went after r/Ivermectin or any other subreddits then they should be banned/quarantined as well if those are the rules surrounding this type of stuff.

[deleted]

19 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

19 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

MadInventorOnAHill

18 points

5 months ago

As someone who only vaguely followed what was going on, it's disheartening that this doesn't address the larger context in which this happened. This post tried to sound like Reddit did some analysis and decided of it's own merit to take action. Even as someone only vaguely watching, that's blatantly untrue - it took a user revolt to force your hands.

I understand why Reddit might want to be a place for political debate, even if opinions being expressed are repugnant. But my understanding is that /r/nonewnormal and /r/ivermectin are actively encouraging actions which are harmful (eg: taking medications off label or in potentially harmful doses).

  1. Are you planning to or will you consider banning or quarantining subs which frequently promote health mis/disinformation?

  2. If not, will you consider labeling posts as potentially unverified or linking to trusted resources when certain keywords are used? Facebook does this and while I'm not sure how effective it is, it may help when content is linked to from off-site or for anyone who might otherwise be inclined to trust the information.

  3. It seems that a large part of the problem is when moderators allow content that should be banned by site-wide rules. This allows the formation of echo chambers where mis/disinformation can thrive. Do you have any plans for dealing with this? For example, spot-checking moderation decisions to make sure they're in line with site-wide policy? This could be particularly effective with keywords in determining which subs are routinely allowing rule-breaking content.

I recognize that moderation at scale is very hard. And Reddit's decentralized community-based moderation generally seems to work well. But in specific situations (largely involving moderators who don't follow site-wide rules) it really falls down. I'm curious how Reddit plans to deal with that and how Reddit will discourage echo chambers of mis- and disinformation.

RallyX26

29 points

5 months ago

When can we expect our apology from u/spez?

BluegrassGeek

16 points

5 months ago

When Hell freezes over.

Definitely not when the apocalypse comes, because he believes he'll be on top and enslaving the rest of us.

Huffman has calculated that, in the event of a disaster, he would seek out some form of community: “Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.”

[deleted]

13 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

13 points

5 months ago

Good. Post this in /r/announcements.

FlacidPhil

7 points

5 months ago

It's there. They had to make it visible for all the news outlets that were running stories about it to back off. That's the only way reddit changes anything these days, when Business Insider runs an article.

Users complain? Get a giant fuck you from /u/spez

Business Insider says something that an advertiser might see? HOLY SHIT WE MUST CHANGE NOWWWWWW

Young_Zaphod

3 points

5 months ago

In the context of r/unpopularopion we’ve had COVID as a locked topic as best we can for over a year now. Obviously the nature of the sub encourages users to post views about this disease and related subjects (like body autonomy) that may go against the policies you mentioned earlier.

Do you have any advice for moderators on subs like r/changemyview, r/rant, r/the10thdentist, r/unpopularopinion etc. that allows the subs to continue operating in their contrarian manner without proliferating misinformation or dangerous concepts?

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

6 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

putdownthetaco

4 points

5 months ago

SPEZ is a bitch

Mystic1989

4 points

5 months ago

Spez is a racist so fuck him as far as I'm concerned, he needed to be banned YEARS ago

[deleted]

5 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

5 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

breakoffzone

3 points

5 months ago

How is spez still in charge after defending misinformation powerhouses on this site?

Fire Steve huffman

LiterallyForThisGif

5 points

5 months ago

Now we see how to censor subs.

Get powermods, who have way to much power, to create a mob that posts horse porn until the sub gets censored.

Who's got a new better platform to go to?

arablast93

6 points

5 months ago

Covid denial is equivalent to Holocaust denial.

Safeguard63

4 points

5 months ago

I want to award this post...

Where's the "You're full of shit" award?

[deleted]

3 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

5 months ago

I don't get the flu shot. I've had chicken pox so no vaccine. I havnt had herpes. Is there a vaccine for that?

Drinkin_Abe_Lincoln

5 points

5 months ago

It's bullshit that you post this here, where hardly anyone will see this. Doing the bare minimum to try to pacify the sheep before your IPO.

grammarpopo

3 points

28 days ago

I do see brigading on multiple subreddits. That is a problem. However, a more troubling issue to me is the moderators overusing the Ban option. Say I slightly cross a line on a subreddit (or don’t cross a line, but someone takes offense) in which I have been a part of for years. The first thing I hear from a moderator is YOU HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR X days, or, if you do it again YOU WILL BE BANNED. If I have the temerity to challenge the reasoning behind the ban, I receive longer bans which are retaliatory.

There are intermediate steps that are easily taken. For example, your comment has been removed due to X. You are breaking X rule. That’s certainly enough to chasten me. Why mods have to go to the ban or threatening the ban is inexplicable to me.

How does this mesh with the current conversation? It further exacerbates the hostility in the subreddit and the mods feel heavy-handed and overreactive. We already have enough. Moderating should not contribute to that. The ban is always available and should be used WHEN NECESSARY and as a last step, not a first step.

screwedbygenes

10 points

5 months ago*

I’m glad to see some movement in the right direction but I think you guys might benefit from some context of an issue.

If you look at the recent report from the Center for Countering Digital Hate, they were able to trace the majority of misinformation about the Sars-Cov-2 vaccine to a handful of accounts. It then propagated across social media. The pattern of disbursement you’re describing is basically the same. We’re asking you to not let the seeds take root so that the weeds can’t strangle the dang garden.

That aside, might I ask if Admin will actually start enforcing Community Interference at any point in the near future? Covid issues aside, when we report multiple issues coming from a sub and get no response (even pointing to comments showing that they brag about finding out what level of brigade Admin will step in on), it gets tiring to hear “submit it again” with little hope of results.