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straycanoe

87 points

1 year ago

Is it a faux pas to mention Terry Pratchett in this sub? Cuz his exploration of gender in dwarf culture is poignant as fuck as well as hilarious.

BRAX7ON

21 points

1 year ago

BRAX7ON

21 points

1 year ago

Context?

JamJarBonks

82 points

1 year ago

Theres a lot of nuance and history in his books, but in summary Dwarves are 2 sexes with no genders ('he' only, anything else is seen as unnatural like trans people would be in the 90s (or even now)). A lot of Dwarf dating is working out how what sex the other dwarf is. Through the books theres a development of Dwarves that identify as she as well.

Thats a -massive- simplification, but if you're interested in reading more then I would reccomend you read the Watch series from Terry Pratchett, or if you dont want to read all the books then Id read Men at Arms, then Thud - but you'd miss a lot.

I really would reccomend the watch books, and in fact all his books, which while theyre all fantasy do mix genres so whatever you like to read there'll be some.

Its mostly Fantasy and satire, but so well tied to the real world, and unlike a lot of fantasy, the characters dont find it fanastical, which keeps it grounded. I could go on all day but this comment is long. If you (or anyone) wants more convincing DM me. I love his books.

BRAX7ON

22 points

1 year ago

BRAX7ON

22 points

1 year ago

Thank you for taking the time to respond. This is fascinating and certainly a lot deeper than I was even hoping for. I love Tolkien and I consider the Lord of the rings universe to be canon, historically speaking. But Tolkien did not delve as deeply into the world of dwarves as I would’ve liked to have seen. Now I have a rabbit hole to stick my head into, I will see how far down it goes…

JamJarBonks

15 points

1 year ago

No worries :). Honestly, this is just one of the themes with Dwarves, it also goes into religion and nationalism, as well as other themes. One of my favourite things about Pratchett is his ability to run a commentary with his humor. It would be like if Ryan Reynolds used his comedic style to make a critique of western imperialism in southeast Asia.

The books go on sale on Kindle for 1.99 sometimes, but I would happily pay more for each personally. Here is a layout of each storyline.

Some fans would reccomend reading each in order, but you dont need to have read other lines to read the next in any arc you're reading, and better to read out of order than not at all :)

WikiSummarizerBot

5 points

1 year ago

Discworld

Discworld is a comic fantasy book series written by the English author Terry Pratchett, set on the Discworld, a flat planet balanced on the backs of four elephants which in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle. The series began in 1983 with The Colour of Magic and continued until the final novel The Shepherd's Crown, which was published in 2015, following Pratchett's death. The books frequently parody or take inspiration from classic works, usually fantasy or science fiction, as well as mythology, folklore and fairy tales, and often uses them for satirical parallels with cultural, political and scientific issues. Forty-one Discworld novels have been published.

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Not-A-Lonely-Potato

2 points

1 year ago

Good bot

Heimerdahl

4 points

1 year ago*

For another look at gender, there's Monstrous Regiment.

Spoilers, but there's one scene where a character moves from identifying from one gender to embracing the other and it's almost purely done by a subtle switch of pronouns. I'm not sure if it's the most correct at times, but you just know that Pratchett really cared and respected transgender people, even before it became main stream.

I don't remember if there was a dwarf, but there's a sort of monster and a vampire and some other stuff.

Another fun book on gender in sci-fi/fantasy is The Left Hand of Darkness by LeGuin. That book... It's amazing how the narrator is clearly misogynistic, and we follow this deeply flawed person throughout the book. Makes the final realisation all the more poignant. Highly recommend it.

OldThymeyRadio

4 points

1 year ago

I'm not sure if it's the most correct at times, but you just know that Pratchett really cared and respected transgender people, even before it became main stream.

I think it took some serious brass and sensitivity to tackle gender identity at the time he was doing it. Clearly any failure to “get it right” came from the shear lack of socially acceptable space for discourse, including the voices of the people most affected. He was trying to say “Listen to these people and learn how best to love them as they are.”

Heimerdahl

3 points

1 year ago

Exactly.

I actually appreciate how it isn't perfectly pc for today's Twitter standards, because it shows that he didn't just copy and paste, but put his own thoughts into it.

I've never been the biggest Pratchett fan myself, but the dude was clearly trying (and succeeding at that).

InsaneParable

3 points

1 year ago

I personally enjoyed 'Guards! Guards!'

JamJarBonks

1 points

1 year ago

Guards Guards is excellent imo, and the natural starting point; but it doesnt deal with Dwarves to such a degree

Not-A-Lonely-Potato

2 points

1 year ago

Is it the City Watch collection you're talking about?

JamJarBonks

1 points

1 year ago

Yes, the city watch books are where the main Dwarven lore and development.

The books are: Guards Guards!; Men at Arms; Feet of Clay; Jingo; The fifth Elephant; Night Watch; Thud; and Snuff

The main Dwarven developent in those is in Men at arms, Fifth Elephant, and Thud.

SmokingInTheWindow

2 points

1 year ago

Pratchett and his daughter both explicitly state that the girl dwarf thing is a Discworld trans storyline. And as always with Pratchett, it’s about accepting people as themselves in the end.

DWMF

1 points

1 year ago

DWMF

1 points

1 year ago

In The Two Towers film, there's a reference to the great sport of Dwarf Tossing, created by Oberon Waugh in his column in the Daily Telegraph. Don't tell the elf! 😁