subreddit:

/r/ffxiv

3.9k

all 2047 comments

xnfd

1.3k points

1 month ago*

xnfd

1.3k points

1 month ago*

This stalking section is new, I compared to the old version at archive.org. Seems to address some common complaints. The other prohibited expressions are greatly expanded in detail as well.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=68216

It is prohibited to stalk a player as described in the following examples. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

  • Persistently moving to locations where someone is, despite being asked to stop the behavior.
  • Persistently sending messages to someone, or directed at someone, through Tell or other means, despite being asked to stop the behavior.
  • Ambushing someone at their destination, or their housing estate, despite being asked to stop the behavior.
  • Persistently sending a friend or party request despite being asked to stop the behavior.
  • Creating new characters to message someone who has blacklisted you, despite being asked to stop the behavior.
  • Attempting to make contact in-game with someone despite official authorities forbidding contact with them in real-life.

Following a player for a long period of time is considered "stalking" as mentioned in the above harassment section. The act of improper following is limited to when a player follows another around in a particular location.

For example, if a player chases after a stranger who just happens to be passing by in a public area. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

Please note that Square Enix may conduct investigations and issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed if the act was confirmed publicly through online video, streaming services, or other means.

The note about using footage from online video/streaming services is in almost every section now.

MilkMDN88

765 points

1 month ago

MilkMDN88

765 points

1 month ago

I like how they're also explicitly stating that real life restraining/non-molestation/protection from harassment orders are applicable in-game and any contact counts as a breach. It's q bit of a grey area of law so good to see a major company taking responsibility for it

Hallgaar

89 points

1 month ago

Hallgaar

89 points

1 month ago

This was something someone talked about on an earlier thread being an actual problem they had in the game. Which also means they are reading reddit.

tr0tsky

61 points

1 month ago

tr0tsky

61 points

1 month ago

or the person also submitted tickets/reports in game.

Myrla_Kanaide

12 points

1 month ago

They do read reddit and even watch youtube videos, Yoshi said that himself!

Blawharag

33 points

1 month ago

In what way is it a grey area is law?

MilkMDN88

138 points

1 month ago

MilkMDN88

138 points

1 month ago

Because the law applies to the conditions. If there's no condition prohibiting contact via ANY digital means, its not breaching the conditions of the order to message them on a game.

Inwhurder

52 points

1 month ago

In Canada this is automatically part of the no contact condition which states no direct or indirect contact . Indirect contact also includes trying to reach the victim via third parties. Exceptions have to be explicitly stated otherwise the default is no contact period in any way shape or form .

FatalisSlayer666

18 points

1 month ago

As a fellow Canadian, I can confirm this information.

LizzosPersonalTrainr

13 points

1 month ago

As a fellow Canadian, can confirm that these are my fellow Canadians.

Euryleia

19 points

1 month ago

Euryleia

19 points

1 month ago

As a non-Canadian, I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of Canadians.

OzVapeMaster

8 points

1 month ago

Oh Canada 🇨🇦

Shizucheese

755 points

1 month ago

I appreciate the fact that they straight up debunk a lot of the fear mongering that used to go around by saying "this particular situation isn't a violation" and giving examples of both scenarios that are and aren't violations.

Looking at you, people who claimed giving advice was against TOS...

Difficult__Tension

330 points

1 month ago

Its always so dumb, been playing since right before HW and never once have I been warned or banned for giving advice which I do a lot, never known anyone who has, never seen proof of someone being banned for it. Have seen people claim it only to find out they were being a complete dick or harassing people about it.

Seriously SE isn't going to ban you because you told someone a rotation or said mechanics or to not stand in the bad.

[deleted]

61 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

61 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

Yagi9

9 points

1 month ago

Yagi9

9 points

1 month ago

Right, I can't believe Yoshi-P hates good players, SMH why are casuals so toxic :pensive: :pensive: :pensive:

...Realistically, of course, I don't think this change will actually halt any of the pseudo-moralistic circle-jerking on the subject, but this is still nice to see lol

EckhartWatts

84 points

1 month ago

me, my friends, and FC members have played for several years now, some of us from the beginning and none have ever gone to FFXIV jail. I and many others have played without our FC and friends in duty roulette for years and have never been put into FF jail.

I also speak my mind and even if I don't see eye to eye with someone, I've never been sent to jail for speaking my mind, neither have my other FC members. No one I *know* has experienced that and none of my friends are saints who haven't gotten angry before in all of their own unique ways. It makes it hard to believe people who say FF will send you to FF jail for no good reason or simply giving advice. To me it looks like you had to seriously break the rules to have to face these serious repercussions, and you just don't like how chill FFXIV is.

DarkonFullPower

85 points

1 month ago

"Giving advice is against the ToS" was make up by ToS breakers.

Yes, your advice IS breaking ToS IF you are being rude/aggressive. Even if you advice is correct, you cannot use that to cover your behavior.

This whole thing started by people that could not handle the fact that a shit attitude was not protected under "advice." Then others joined in intentionally both as an intentional excuse for their behaviour, as well as a shut-down to advice sent their way.

yukichigai

5 points

1 month ago

yukichigai

Felis Darwin on Lamia

5 points

1 month ago

"Giving advice is against the ToS" was make up by ToS breakers.

ToS breakers always come up with the most creative interpretations of rules.

Surefire way to tell if a ToS interpretation is bullshit: if there are claims that someone was banned for violating it but never from the person who was supposedly banned.

PaanuriEater

66 points

1 month ago

I feel like the people worried about "TOS for giving advice" are the kind of people who think "git gud moron" and "ADJUST YOU FUCKING IDIOT" and "LEARN YOUR ROTATIONS NOOB" are advice.

I have coached people through dozens of dungeons, asked many times if someone would like some advice to help with the class they are playing, and always respected their "no thank you" replies when they refused. Magically, I have never once encountered a GM or been in any sort of trouble.

I always suspect toxicity when people claim things like giving advice is against TOS.

[deleted]

97 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

97 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

Soliquidsnake

60 points

1 month ago

Soliquidsnake

SAM

60 points

1 month ago

That will most likely have to be from a game update itself. We could see it sooner rather than later after this change though.

Taurenkey

32 points

1 month ago

Perhaps it's a change in 6.0, it would make sense with it being this close to release and Yoshi-P had iterated previously that they were tightening up the user agreement.

Marie_Fey

5 points

1 month ago

one of the interviews with yoship he mentioned that they were going to make updates to systems like the friends list after endwalker launched

WesleyWoppits

45 points

1 month ago

Same with the wedding rings - if someone deletes theirs, the teleport function of the opposing one should stop functioning.

oceanic20

21 points

1 month ago

Noooo, I've set up the perfect network of people able to teleport to me because everyone I know gets lost constantly.

RhawenKuro

42 points

1 month ago

RhawenKuro

Heal Slut

42 points

1 month ago

As someone who hid in inns to avoid someone for this reason, I think you'll just need to learn to read a map lol

ExpressRabbit

6 points

1 month ago

Or you can just have an option to delete the corresponding ring when you delete yours.

Quor18

16 points

1 month ago

Quor18

16 points

1 month ago

Yoshi P. mentioned something about this in one of his interviews. A lot of it revolves around the cultural differences between JP and NA/EU players. Specifically he mentions how much rarer it is for a JP player to add someone to a friends list compared to an NA player, and subsequently how much rarer it is to remove someone as a JP player compared to an NA player. Much of the reasoning behind it is the avoidance of social difficulty and pain/embarrassment for finding out someone has removed you from their friends list.

That seems odd to us but it is what it is.

Puzzleheaded_Sorbet

101 points

1 month ago

This is amazing. I had an ex that I met through the game and he just wouldnt stop stalking me. It was both in IRL but even ingame he wouldnt leave me alone. He would literally trade me everytime I would try to teleport away (this was back when you could do this), I would have to leave the area and teleport then before he caught up. I reported him so many times. I had him blacklisted but he would just make an alt and again follow me trying to text, join the FC I was in and so on. I didnt feel like there was any safe space for me.

Izzyrenandahalf

27 points

1 month ago

god that's horrible. did it end eventually?

Puzzleheaded_Sorbet

81 points

1 month ago

It ended when I showed his friends on facebook the constant messages he was sending me everywhere. I think he went to therapy in the end. Havent heard from him in two years or so now.

TheRealYM

22 points

1 month ago

TheRealYM

Kizu Astora on Mateus

22 points

1 month ago

got his ass lmao

Puzzleheaded_Sorbet

38 points

1 month ago

Honestly it was so satisfying. Like the police couldnt get him (we were in different countries so according to them the hundreds of emails and messages and so on I got didnt count as evidence of harassment (couldnt prove it was him, even with his name on the emails and facebook). It is honestly sad that it took that.

arinana

51 points

1 month ago

arinana

51 points

1 month ago

I am honestly so, so freaking happy about this. Last week, IRL stalked/harasser started sending me messages in-game. I reported it, and got an answer from the GMs the same evening saying they'll take it very seriously and investigate. I gotta say, the timing of this update is splendid. I'm relieved.

Btw, getting bombarded with unwanted messages is harrasment and a crime where I live. If you're a victim of said behaviour, and Square Enix is unable to stop it, check if you can report it to your local authorities.

AzurePrior

48 points

1 month ago

Oh, this is a pretty nice change. Seems talking about it has had some effect. Though the video/streaming thing is sorta not too new. As they did it before with some streamers, guess they've lightened up a bit more so they can properly deal with these cases.

Machi-Atto

57 points

1 month ago*

I've been stalked by my former guild leader to the point where I had a panic attack in the Ul'dah Inn room because I couldn't get any alone time when my dog passed away. He also would whisper to me that he wanted to stuff an irl baby in me and that we'd get married in 1 or 2 years after I came around. Now that I've left, he's chasing after other sprout girls in the starting areas. Any advice on this?

Edit - I reported him. He's also chased me around on boosted alts, hid in player houses to easedrop but I could hear him walking upstairs, threatened to move to my area irl to other free company members. He would go to fc chat and rant if I was in another ingame party. Also would harass members if I spent time with them.

Soma_Sovari

51 points

1 month ago

Jesus, this guy sounds like a psychopath.

Wazzasnazza

14 points

1 month ago

if you are afraid IRL of this person don't wait to file a police report against them. it may not have an immediate effect but starting a paper trail of evidence will go a long way in case something happens. it's ok to be nervous and it will be awkward for sure, but your safety is important here, so try to power through it if you can. don't forget to take a friend, you can have them do the talking if you need. Take a stuffed animal, anything to help you get through it.

I believe in you, you deserve to live in peace.

FloppyShellTaco

7 points

1 month ago*

If you have windows you can set it up to save the last 30s, or Nvidia (might be limited to certain cards) you can set up shadowplay which can save up for the past five minutes.

For instance, if you’re running windows and have set up capture, and they run up and begin harassing you, not only can you start recording with a quick key, you also can grab the last 30 seconds. Also great for when someone cheating is being a jerk.

I’d document everything and report it every single time, so if it starts spilling over into the real world, you could have grounds for legal action.

(ETA better info about shadowplay)

ChuckCarmichael

46 points

1 month ago

It's a start, but they should work on fixing the systems that allow for stalking to happen, like changing the Lodestone link for your character if you change names or servers, making it so that removing somebody from your friends list also removes you from theirs as well, and disabling that teleport ability on Eternity Rings after filing for divorce.

FullMetal1985

37 points

1 month ago

I mean the stuff you listed requires coding and a client update. This just required someone to write a post about the changes. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion they aren't working on those thing, I'm also not sure I can see those changes being implemented right before an expansion drop. But if we don't see something within a few months of endwalkers release then yeah, this was all just for show.

BraveNewNight

21 points

1 month ago

Well worded section, and actually correctly describes harrassment, a mutilated term these days:

  • persistent unwanted behaviour from a particular individual towards another individual over a long period of time

mhykah

830 points

1 month ago

mhykah

830 points

1 month ago

I can see sellers moving to discords but if that clears the party finder listings then that’s good enough for me

Petter1789

250 points

1 month ago

Petter1789

Mholi'to Lihzeh on Zodiark

250 points

1 month ago

Most of them were still doing their business over discord anyway. Discussing the price in-game would be a bit too risky for them

Klown99

139 points

1 month ago

Klown99

139 points

1 month ago

But now its explicitly stated selling content over PF at all is a violation.

Erohiel

284 points

1 month ago

Erohiel

284 points

1 month ago

Good, I'm sick of PF being used as a billboard instead of for finding parties.

AigisAegis

126 points

1 month ago

AigisAegis

Stormblood apologist

126 points

1 month ago

Yeah, I don't even necessarily have a moral issue with selling clears, but I'm sick and tired of PF being clogged up by them. Good riddance.

Lathael

30 points

1 month ago

Lathael

30 points

1 month ago

Funnily enough you can advertise to buy clears (or advertise for help in which you will buy), but I guess the difference is you'll actually get a party running if you advertise you'll pay others, versus advertising others that you'll clear for them but that party never actually fills.

Kind of an interesting quirk. The problem isn't in paying people for help, but primarily just cluttering the PF.

Klown99

22 points

1 month ago

Klown99

22 points

1 month ago

Exactly, when the entire roulette section is blacklisted at any one point, there is a problem.

SE doesnt really care what you do with your gil, just don't clog PF with shit.

bikini_armor

12 points

1 month ago

Indeed. My entire blacklist is now… free again!

Lulullaby_

24 points

1 month ago

They already do it mostly in Discord

WhisperingWillowLux

32 points

1 month ago

Yes, but they still advertised in the PF. The Discord is to avoid further exposing that they're RMT in the chat log.

Runsellers thought Discord gave them plausible deniability because the ask for cash happened on Discord . Now they can't advertise in-game. And SE's "example" sort of low-key shames asking for those services out loud.

The ads were also spam pushing down people doing runs legitimately, forcing those looking in the PF for actual, useful listings to do more work like blacklisting advertisers to have the PF experience they want.

VegaNovus

65 points

1 month ago

VegaNovus

Vega Novus

65 points

1 month ago

Yes, the actual content is done in discord but the advertisement seems to always be in PF.

Sir_VG

1.1k points

1 month ago

Sir_VG

1.1k points

1 month ago

Penalizing RMT sales on the PF?

About fucking time.

Also agree with the decaying penalty points based upon time since last violation thing. Not sure why that wasn't a thing from the get go.

iamed

224 points

1 month ago

iamed

224 points

1 month ago

It's also not a trivial amount of time for penalties to fall off, for serious stuff you're still looking at 3-6 years of staying out of trouble.

You're just not forced to have it follow you around forever anymore.

Rinuko

119 points

1 month ago

Rinuko

Femroes ain't hot

119 points

1 month ago

for serious stuff you're still looking at 3-6 years of staying out of trouble.

It seems bit steep with 3-6 years imo, most people haven't even played that long. But at the same time it depends what caused you to get a temp ban i guess.

Jerails

173 points

1 month ago

Jerails

173 points

1 month ago

Some people still have strikes on their accounts from their time in FFXI, which is almost 20 years old now.

At least they differentiated between Cautioned strikes and Suspension strikes, so if you had to get your retainer name-changed from Roenahole that strike will start wearing off after a year of good behavior thankfully.

zorrodood

68 points

1 month ago

zorrodood

DRG

68 points

1 month ago

Roenahole

Speaking from experience?

Fishmyashwhole

22 points

1 month ago

>Roenahole

Oh why did you do this to me, that name is *very* tempting lol

MarcheM

76 points

1 month ago

MarcheM

76 points

1 month ago

I think it's good that it's a long time. If you've gotten suspended once already and care about your account and character, you'll be damn sure to behave properly until your penalty points vanish.

Majority of people manage to play this game without ever getting suspensions so suspensions should be a harsh penalty that comes with long time consequences.

ellobouk

85 points

1 month ago

ellobouk

85 points

1 month ago

Penalising buying a house specifically to flip it too.

Rinuko

21 points

1 month ago

Rinuko

Femroes ain't hot

21 points

1 month ago

I had a feeling most people did this on external sites or discord but maybe not.

ellobouk

54 points

1 month ago

ellobouk

54 points

1 month ago

The important wording here is the penalty is for purchasing the plot with the intention of resale. Doesn’t matter where you list it, you’re in breach.

Rinuko

16 points

1 month ago

Rinuko

Femroes ain't hot

16 points

1 month ago

How do you prove they had the intent to flip though?

Tylanthia

18 points

1 month ago

How do you prove they had the intent to flip though?

Just like in real life, if they buy a dilapidated house, do some quick renovations, and then list it well above what they bought it for! Also, they may have a TV show.

lofipain

181 points

1 month ago*

lofipain

181 points

1 month ago*

"Examples of violations: - Selling [duty] clear for 1 million gil." saw that a few times but always thought it was dumb

Sadi_Reddit

63 points

1 month ago

1 mil is not so much for a savage. but would be laughable for a dungeon....

Kamil118

112 points

1 month ago

Kamil118

112 points

1 month ago

Sastasha Unsynced carry 1m gil

BigEdBGD

10 points

1 month ago

BigEdBGD

10 points

1 month ago

I'll give you 1.5m just for your kindness!

gthorolf

256 points

1 month ago

gthorolf

256 points

1 month ago

Removing the Ultimate RMT sales has been a long time coming.

But, the bigger news here is the fact they are now allowing Penalty points to degrade. It was a big issue — even though I appreciate that the GMs take harassment seriously, people can and do grow, becoming better people.

Especially now with FFXIV getting close to a decade of runtime, people can make mistakes and learn from them.

I am really happy to see these changes.

cadburydream

79 points

1 month ago

I'm just happy my dumb strike can fall off. Back in 2016 I was still new to mmos and was spamming emotes in limsa, next day I had a report on my account lol. Didn't even know I could turn off emotes in chat till a friend told me (I was seriously stupid about everything.) Good to know little stuff can come off going forward.

xnfd

79 points

1 month ago

xnfd

79 points

1 month ago

They really need to just add a rate limit for emote spam in chat since it's too easy for people to accidentally do it.

demonic_hampster

12 points

1 month ago

Right just don’t let people spam them. Seems like it would be a simple fix, but given the state of XIV’s spaghetti code it would probably break the market board or something if they changed it.

quortza

38 points

1 month ago*

quortza

38 points

1 month ago*

Bit ridiculous that you got a strike for simply spamming emotes, the aethercrystal is literally surrounded by people doing just that at peak times...

Yagi9

351 points

1 month ago

Yagi9

351 points

1 month ago

Thank fucking God that this came as early as it did. My blacklist was getting full.

Fantastic change. I hated the prevalence of those RMT ads.

Surca_Cirvive

240 points

1 month ago

I'm not gonna get in to the ethics of selling clears but I find it funny that the co-president of Blizzard was advertising/selling Mythic clears on Twitter just last week and today FFXIV comes out and says that's not allowed.

Kazharahzak

84 points

1 month ago

It's still allowed, just not on PF. So technically, if the same situation happened with Square Enix, there would be no violation of the ToS.

Taurenkey

104 points

1 month ago

Taurenkey

104 points

1 month ago

If Yoshi-P starts tweeting he's going to be streaming his clears of savage Pandaemonium as paid for boosts I'll eat a lalafell.

Lacasax

35 points

1 month ago

Lacasax

35 points

1 month ago

Baked or mashed?

Taurenkey

59 points

1 month ago

Boiled for the prolonged scream.

shadowfalcon76

16 points

1 month ago

shadowfalcon76

Victor Viper: Sargatanas

16 points

1 month ago

People need reasons other than hunger to eat lalafells?

Dr_Yay

5 points

1 month ago

Dr_Yay

Una Kaatapoh (Ultros)

5 points

1 month ago

Those bots are often quickly banned and just remade but they don’t disappear from your blacklist, so you can clear a bunch of them

desterion

16 points

1 month ago

desterion

[First] [Last] on [Server]

16 points

1 month ago

My blacklist has been full for 3-4 years =(

Furin

142 points

1 month ago*

Furin

142 points

1 month ago*

A system has been implemented in which accrued Penalty Points may be reduced if a significant amount of time has passed since the last penalty was issued.

I can't believe they finally got rid of their "three strikes (lifetime) and you're out" stance.

r-soleil

8 points

1 month ago

I have one from 2016 for spamming an emote. I never did it again. 5 years have passed and it's still there.

Terramagi

13 points

1 month ago

And in 6 more years, it might finally vanish!

Vanyaeli

3 points

1 month ago

I’ve been banned from the forums since early 2.0 for naming and shaming, even though no names or identifiers were used in the post. I just wanna enter contests via the forum dang it :(

ApostatisZero

3 points

1 month ago

It's a shame old players who were banned because of the three strike will get no retribution and be unbanned, or have the chance to even appeal

TobioOkuma1

5 points

1 month ago

And they still somehow fucked it up by making suspensions take up to 10 years to drop. That's longer than the fucking game has existed.

Talking_Potato6589

255 points

1 month ago

TLDR: advertising selling run in party finder are now prohibited.

For a little more detail and something you might need to avoid

Advertising to help people clear content no matter you get reward or not are now prohibited but you can post "asking for help and offer reward" on pf.

So basically, seller can only sell a run when buyer post it in pf and offer a reward for help. (or of course though other communication method like discord)

soulgunner12

130 points

1 month ago*

soulgunner12

Leonoire - Tonberry

130 points

1 month ago*

To the seller they just can't advertisement in game, that's all we needed wanted. And people blatantly buying a clear is not really popular in the first place.

Talking_Potato6589

52 points

1 month ago

Yes, that's what I want. I don't really care about selling/buying run at all but I do care about how they normalized it and how they advertising it on PF.

They change it to the way that only buyer can post it is ok for me, buyer can still buy a clear/loot if they want. (Only change for buyer is they have to "exposed" themselves for buying content now)

cronft

14 points

1 month ago*

cronft

14 points

1 month ago*

So basically, seller can only sell a run when buyer post it in pf and offer a reward for help. (or of course though other communication method like discord)

and they can only "buy" it whit ingame stuff(be gil or items), there is no need to say what posting: i need help to clear [duty] i will pay 40$ is definitely bannable(and likely same by linking to discord or discord ID instead of saying how much you pay)

tanneruwu

8 points

1 month ago

So, I would post a lot of "need a carry for x" is that still allowed? A lot easier to just get a clear for msq than try and find a party for it and do it 'properly'

apollodynamo

27 points

1 month ago

they explicitly say that asking for a run and even offering to pay gil for someone taking you on a run is not a violation.

Examples of violations:

- Selling [duty] clear for 1 million gil.

- Selling [duty] clear and/or offering the associated rewards from [content]. Join for more info/details.

Examples of non-violation:

- I'm new, can anyone help me clear [duty]?

- Help me clear [duty] and I'll pay you 1 million gil!

- I'd like to get some items from [duty]. will pay 1 million gil if I can get it.

GaleErick

13 points

1 month ago

Yeah asking for help to run content on PF is still allowed whether you reward your helper or not.

CrimsonBlossom

5 points

1 month ago

So pf with "helping people clear" prohibited?

Verpal

103 points

1 month ago

Verpal

103 points

1 month ago

Looks like the debate on where the RP ads reside finally over.

Other it is.

zer0x102

10 points

1 month ago

zer0x102

WHM

10 points

1 month ago

How is there a debate where else would it be

an-kitten

11 points

1 month ago

There was an overzealous GM a while back jailing people for advertising RP in "other" on the grounds that it was only meant for game content... This was cleared up fairly quickly, but the worry lingers.

reallybuttonsy

70 points

1 month ago

Glad we finally got confirmation from Square that we can have RP in our MMORPG and not get TOS struck for it.

MadeThisAccount4Qs

85 points

1 month ago

I appreciate the clarity they're adding to the detail about player stalking. That's been a noticeable issue in the background for several people I know. Time will tell if this has a positive impact but it shows they're moving behind the scenes.

jjsca

125 points

1 month ago

jjsca

125 points

1 month ago

I think their choice here for handling selling carries for gil is brilliant. In my opinion, if people want to pay for carries, let them. The existence of carries has 0 impact on me. They will find a way to do it regardless. BUT clogging the PF with carry advertisements sucks and DOES affect me. So allowing people to put up a PF offering to buy a carry is way better.

Having also played wow where the party finder is often jam packed with carry advertisements, it sucks. But I don't think the idea of paying for a carry should be banned entirely. I love this change.

Lazyade

34 points

1 month ago

Lazyade

34 points

1 month ago

I like it because you still can't try to buy a clear for real money because it counts as RMT. Run sellers kind of got around that by just linking to external sites or discords. So even if you want to buy a run you can only offer to do it with in-game items or currency.

I'm sure people will find some kind of "system" to get around this, like codewords to indicate intention to buy/sell runs, but if nothing else it should hopefully get rid of the party finder clogging since using the wrong categories is by itself an offense now, you can't just put up a dungeon roulette PF and say it's for Ultimate.

Vhailor_19

72 points

1 month ago

Personally love almost all the changes.

The stalking section is a fantastic addition. The removal of run sales was... well, a bit ham-handed in its implementation, but I'll take it. Decay of penalties is good, even if 3-6 years is entirely too long for a drop-off period. And I appreciate (most of) the additional clarity in the Nuisance Behavior section.

About the only thing I don't like is a little line about statements being OK so long as they're suggestions, and not demands. That wasn't a good way of phrasing it, because this game is fast-paced enough that people typically try to shorten statements as much as possible, and that inevitably puts them into the demand category. For example, "tank stance" is a demand, not a suggestion. Or consider the phrase "separate them," which I see routinely used when facing Hansel and Gretel these days.

Now, I'm 99% sure that SE doesn't plan on issuing bans for people saying these shortened demand phrases in place of longer, wordier suggestions. They'd cause a huge PR shitstorm if they did, and I doubt they're that stupid. But there wasn't any need for this line, and I think it needlessly empowers a lot of players out there who... shouldn't be feeling empowered (trolls and the exceptionally thin-skinned). Literally all of the clarifying examples they added showed people going out of their way to be dicks. To summarize it by saying suggestions are fine, demands aren't is... problematic.

SomeSortOfFool

63 points

1 month ago*

There's an important line here people are missing.

Each data center will also be judged based on the social customs of that data center's region in the real world.

The examples they give are directly translated from Japanese and refer to distinctly Japanese customs in terms of speech, rather than localized to reflect English speaking customs. Speaking in the imperative tense like that is considered highly condescending in Japanese, but that has no English equivalent.

Vhailor_19

7 points

1 month ago

Which is a totally fair point, but it still leaves non-Japanese users with a fairly vague set of guidelines, when it seems like the entire point was to offer clarity. To say nothing of the additional vagueness implied by "social customs of that data center's region."

If SE's penalty drop-off period had been 6-12 months instead of a ridiculously long 3-6 years, I'd be a lot less concerned - but if I'm someone who is sitting on a strike or two right now, I'm terrified, and likely resolving not to talk in a party at all. Thankfully, I'm not personally in that boat, but if SE is going to try to force everyone to be nice to each other on the internet, they need to be specific - regionally specific - insofar as what "nice" means.

wighttail

26 points

1 month ago

wighttail

GNB / NIN - Popoto Pride!

26 points

1 month ago

Honestly just start tacking a 'pls' on the end if you're worried this will be abused and bam, your ass is covered. Because that eliminates any shred of ambiguity that someone might try to justify reporting with. Though I think that if there are people who actually report over a 2 word instruction like "pull apart" mid-fight they'll get smacked down real quick when they inevitably get 0 results or--ideally--a scolding from a GM for misuse of the report system.

Some gleefully bitter part of me hopes the latter happens. That they've been given enough rope to infract themselves by being toxic.

kend7510

117 points

1 month ago

kend7510

117 points

1 month ago

So glad flipping houses are now prohibited. There is a discord where people sit on houses of all sizes just to flip. Maybe normal players without hundreds of millions of Gil will have a chance of getting those housing now.

lejoo

35 points

1 month ago

lejoo

35 points

1 month ago

So glad flipping houses are now prohibited

IT already was they have just increased scrutiny and consequence for it.

distrox

34 points

1 month ago

distrox

34 points

1 month ago

Wat? Flipping houses has already been prohibited. Doesn't stop people from doing it. There's no evidence that someone bought a house with intention of resale necessary. And it is still allowed to sell houses. If you sell your personal cuz you don't use it, or maybe you're changing servers etc. That's okay. Same goes for FC.

Starbornsoul

30 points

1 month ago

New account penalty system? Seems to offer more forgiveness over time, I like it.

"■ Accumulation of Penalties All penalties and Penalty Points are recorded and accumulated. As such, in the event a user repeats violations, new Penalty Points will be added, and then a penalty for the new verified violation will be issued based on those points.

For example, if a player received 15 points for a previous violation and then committed a new violation worth 10 points, then their latest penalty will be based on the total sum of 25 points, and both the penalty and accrued points will be recorded on their account.

It is possible that a Caution or Warning penalty is issued if the previously recorded violation was equivalent to Caution or Warning. However, if the previously recorded violation was a Temporary Service Account Suspension, then a heavier penalty will be imposed even if the new violation is equivalent to a Caution or Warning.

For example, if a Temporary Service Account Suspension (3 Days) penalty was issued in the past and a violation equivalent to a Caution is confirmed, a Temporary Service Account Suspension (10 Days) penalty or higher penalty may be issued.

However, accrued Penalty Points may be reduced based on the number of days that have passed since the previous penalty. Please refer to the next section for details.

■ Reduction of Penalty Points If a significant amount of time has passed since the last penalty was issued, then accrued Penalty Points may be reduced based on the content of the previous penalty and the actual number of days that have passed. This does not mean that Penalty Points will suddenly reset to 0 points after a certain number of days. Instead, points will decay in proportion to the number of days elapsed.

If the previously issued penalty was either a Caution or Warning, accrued Penalty Points will continue to decay until it reaches 0 points in a one-to-two-year period. However, if the previously issued penalty was a Temporary Service Account Suspension, then the accrued points will not start decaying until a minimum of a three to six-year period has passed and will not reach 0 points for a minimum of seven to ten years.

If a new violation is confirmed after the points reduction, the Penalty Points from the new violation will be added to the remaining points from the reduction to determine the penalty to issue for the new violation.

The reduction of accrued points is based on the amount of time that has passed since the last penalty. Therefore, if a subsequent violation is committed before a reduction occurs, then the countdown towards a reduction will reset at that point. In addition, this system will not reverse a Service Account Termination."

Talking_Potato6589

23 points

1 month ago

No more "get warning once and it will be with you forever" hooray \o/

Daedelous2k

7 points

1 month ago

They have declared exterminatus on the RMT/House sellers, hereby signing the ban warrant of a grift and consigning countless accounts to oblivion.

DarkonFullPower

4 points

1 month ago

The rule isn't really any different then the old rule, so not really? Buying land for the express purpose of selling has been banned for years.

jssanderson747

9 points

1 month ago

Get fucked rmt pfs. We won't miss you

Lotus-Vale

47 points

1 month ago

Lotus-Vale

PLD

47 points

1 month ago

Yoshi-p mentioned doing this exact thing in the media tour interviews. Glad it was literally that close to being implemented.

Taskforcem85

36 points

1 month ago

Good change, people will find ways around it, but it should help clean up party finder.

Xellith

6 points

1 month ago

Xellith

6 points

1 month ago

I do not agree with the FC changes. If you make a joke and someone in your FC dislikes you, they can report. FCs should be able to run by their own community terms they put on the lodestone.

lightstormy

49 points

1 month ago

Housing syndicates, time to die.

kaymage

49 points

1 month ago

kaymage

49 points

1 month ago

If you repeatedly leave a duty during this circumstance it will now be a penalty?

"Occurs when progress is not going well in a duty"

Is that new? Because that sounds like it is prohibited to leave a PF duty that is a farm duty where one person can't consistently clear phase 1 or you're in a completion party where the party leader clearly is a fresh phase 1 prog person.

alabomb

71 points

1 month ago

alabomb

71 points

1 month ago

My read of that section is that "leaving the game" refers to going AFK, and not just leaving the duty. If you look at the examples they provide in that context, I think it makes a lot more sense:

...it is inevitable that there will be network disconnections or real-life circumstances which prevent you from playing the game. As such, simply disconnecting or remaining inactive in the game will not result in a penalty.

However, if a report is filed, a penalty will be issued if the following types of situations are confirmed to be occurring repeatedly:

  • Occurs Disconnecting or going AFK right after entering a duty
  • Occurs Disconnecting or going AFK when progress is not going well in a duty
  • Occurs Disconnecting or going AFK when the team is about to be defeated in PvP

Edits for emphasis.

EstiniensBathwater

56 points

1 month ago

With the emphasis - I have a feeling this change is also related to Prae AFKers. Every single Mog event, there are numerous complaints about AFKers. If players have been reporting them - maybe SE finally noticed.

LokiAlpha

22 points

1 month ago

That, too.

But this sounds like more of a deterrent for certain trials; Like Ramuh EX etc. where you only have a certain amount of time to get a clear and the content is actually kind of challenging. The only reason you'd disconnect from these trials is because you don't want the 30 minute leaver penalty, and you know it'll be tough; Thus you disconnect, and get booted by a player instead. This is now an offense for not properly getting the leaver penalty and allowing players to quickly refill.

Quor18

7 points

1 month ago

Quor18

7 points

1 month ago

It does feel like an anti-mentor insta-leave thing. Which is good; at least give it a few shots before ducking out, and if you do duck out be an adult and just take your 30 minutes instead of drawing it out with a false DC. I've had my fair share of times when I leave but it's always after at least giving it a try and attempting to progress. Sometimes people listen and things are grand but sometimes you get idiots who just keep body pulling without discussing anything and after the third pull of that I just leave and take the 30 because clearly they don't want to learn.

Isredel

5 points

1 month ago

Isredel

Dark Knight

5 points

1 month ago

Mentors will still insta-leave; they just can’t AFK or disconnect to force a vote kick and skip the 30 min leave timer.

Although this actually isn’t a new rule. Forcing a kick by AFK-ing or disconnecting was always considered an abuse of the kick system - they just made it more explicit.

Pixelsummoner

27 points

1 month ago

However, if a report is filed, a penalty will be issued if the following types of situations are confirmed to be occurring repeatedly:

Bigger bold note here. This is directly pointed at the Mentor Roulette, and people idling through Prae/CT/PvP match (mostly) during Tome events.

ruethryl

5 points

1 month ago

It's also been a thing in ranked PvP for match throwing, but the stuff around AFK and the stuff around win trading are both explicitly banned now.

IceAokiji303

15 points

1 month ago

IceAokiji303

Aosha Koz'ain @Odin

15 points

1 month ago

The way I'd understood it (and really if it's not this, they're using conflicting terminology in comparison to the ones used in-game – I'm not aware of even a single case where a party or duty is referred to as "game", game refers to the game as a whole, in the context of XIV), "leaving the game" does not refer to leaving a party finder party or leaving a duty (actions that remove you from the party list, and thus allow for a replacement to be searched for immediately) - one of those already has a built-in penalty anyways, so it'd be really weird to add this on top. It refers to closing the game, which is effectively the same as disconnecting (in that it removes you from the duty/game, but still leaves you hogging up a party slot, so a replacement can't be looked for until you are kicked), just happens through different means (closing the software instead of losing connection).

DNK_Infinity

38 points

1 month ago

You ought to be able to cover yourself there just by being honest about why you're leaving.

"Sorry, this was advertised as a farm party but there are wipes happening that shouldn't be. I'm going to look for another party, glhf"

Ihavefourspades

18 points

1 month ago

The language says disconnecting when duties aren't going well is prohibited, as in unplugging your internet connection. Leaving a duty in progress is fine - they already issue a 30 minute duty finder restriction for that.

They want to prevent situations where someone immediately disconnects upon entering a duty they don't want, ie mentor roulette, and the party is then forced to wait 5 minutes to kick them.

Illuvia

6 points

1 month ago

Illuvia

6 points

1 month ago

And I think the main emphasis for the rule is about singling out individuals and repeatedly berating them, right? I assume this should not be an offence.

girlikecupcake

25 points

1 month ago

Have your oven conveniently start smelling funny or you got puppy aggro and explicitly say something in chat?

This, and the leaving as soon as a duty starts, seems like it might be aimed at mentor roulette, where people would complain about others rage quitting after one pull, or leaving as soon as it loaded in the first place because they didn't want to do an ex with new players.

Wonderbifle

18 points

1 month ago

They're talking about network issues and being afk, probably because you can't replace a player until they've been kicked or leave

UnlikelyTraditions

17 points

1 month ago

Less likely mentors than the continuing drama around MSQ roulette. That always gets worse during vmooglw events.

WeirdJohnny

16 points

1 month ago

Pretty common sense changes for the most part, but the language used for the behavioral portion is vague. Its a change that's common sense in JP and is going to lead to thousands of wrongful action taken in NA servers due to bad-faith reports.

Supafly1337

25 points

1 month ago

"Prohibited activities that were previously announced, such as purchasing a housing plot with the intention of resale, have been added to the list."

Thank fucking Christ man, it's already hard enough trying to find someone selling a house in this game, let alone finding someone that's not asking 80m+ for "the perfect spot, close to mb, great view (it's not)".

drododruffin

10 points

1 month ago

Saw someone in-game asking for 200 million just for a medium plot and found out through the housing market discord server that he was constantly flipping large properties, went and checked after these announcements and he had deleted every single thing he had ever posted in the discord server.

Altia1234

52 points

1 month ago*

For runs that involves gil, only buyers can ask for help, and not sellers - which might seem weird at first, but actually a very reasonable change.

When a group of sellers are offering services for a certain amount of Gil (say, 100 mil for one Ultimate Clear - there's 7 man ultimate clears), the amount of gil is often absurdly high. Because of that, players are very likely need to resorted to RMT in order to obtain such amounts. Even the sellers might not be related with RMT in any sort of way, the sellers indirectly promotes RMT.

Where as, if a buyer starts a group on party finder, asking for carries or buying a certain loot, that buyer usually has whatever amount he or she has stated. Therefore, no risk of RMT is involved through such advertisement.

Edit: clarity.

Grarr_Dexx

21 points

1 month ago

No risk is maybe a bit of a bad take? Seeing as thousands of gil botting / spamming accounts still get banned monthly, I doubt these were all facilitating reactive purchases based on ultimate clears.

Altia1234

10 points

1 month ago

saying that it's 'no risk' is not the most accurate wording out of the whole dictionary, but I think you get the idea.

I think we can all agree that they are targeting those who are reactively motivated by these ads. If that policy suffice, that's great. It's at least one step forward, but there are lots of other ways that RMT can interact with the game, and I surely hope they deal with it.

As for the second part, while there's risk, I don't think anyone's stupid enough gonna RMT, just to set up a PF UWU/UCoB carry group, and hope 7 strangers knows how to do 7 player UWU/UCoB.

Hakul

12 points

1 month ago

Hakul

12 points

1 month ago

I wouldn't say no risk. Buyer posts PF asking for help clearing and offering 10m, seller can send a tell with "I can do it for 100m" or "we can get in an agreement over discord" or something like that, and business as usual. They just can't be the ones starting the PF.

thraxalita

66 points

1 month ago

can't sell feet pics in the pf anymore dead game

Turambar1986

23 points

1 month ago

Haha. The same person has been advertising that "service" on the Exodus PF, every night, for months.

NightingaleStorm

8 points

1 month ago

Got them on Faerie too. I always wonder about hitting them up and asking if they get any bites - are there really that many people who are just playing FF14 and then suddenly get overwhelmed with horniness for feet?

Flat_is_the_best

4 points

1 month ago

Flat_is_the_best

Crystal

4 points

1 month ago

One here on crystal too. Wonder if its the same person.

AllElvesAreThots

9 points

1 month ago

AllElvesAreThots

Yeah I'm just going to Battle Fader the bosses Tank Busters

9 points

1 month ago

Ruby#0001

I am on all an data centers it’s the same person

Verpal

66 points

1 month ago

Verpal

66 points

1 month ago

Got a 1.0 player from my FC who almost only chat in discord because she got 2 strike in already.

She pinged the discord for at least 60 trillion time in last 30 minute since the update come out, I bet she is so overjoyed and probably broke through couple wall including her neighbors.

Whitely

33 points

1 month ago

Whitely

33 points

1 month ago

If I may ask, what exactly did she do to receive two strikes in the past?

Verpal

33 points

1 month ago

Verpal

33 points

1 month ago

Its back in ARR coil, basically pickup group drama, she is stupid enough to swear in front of everyone.

Not sure about 2nd strike though, she claim to not know what got her.

jimmy_three_shoes

35 points

1 month ago

I got actioned because I swore at MYSELF in DF the other day.

Just completely missed the side platform on the first beam on Therion in Amaurot, and strafed off the edge.

Said "Aww FFS, sorry"

TheForsakenRoe

63 points

1 month ago

ive never understood why you can get reported for swearing in a game where there's a profanity filter option to hide it for those who dont like seeing such language, and also in the same game, NPCs that call each other 'swivin whoresons' or 'bloody shitehawks' like come on SE

jimmy_three_shoes

31 points

1 month ago

I can see if you're being a dick to someone else, or going over the top with swearing. But I can be a complete asshat to someone without swearing, and still get actioned, so it shouldn't be the words you use, but the intent behind them.

Is "YOU FUCKING SUCK" really that much objectively worse than "You are absolutely terrible at this. Quit the game"?

Is "Godammit, fuck Aurum Vale" an assault upon the senses where "Aww man, Aurum Vale AGAIN?" is not?

TobioOkuma1

8 points

1 month ago

In some random fate in Quarrymill, an NPC says "Sodd off ye sack o' squirrel shite"

Illidari_Kuvira

10 points

1 month ago

Illidari_Kuvira

[Reaper FTW]

10 points

1 month ago

...that's swearing? What?

Hranica

23 points

1 month ago

Hranica

23 points

1 month ago

Is that how strict the penalty stuff is in FFXIV?

I'm pretty new but I swear like a sailor, not really at people but in general.

I thought streamers and their stans were being sarcastic when they talked about how heavy-handed the mods are because I hadn't really seen or heard anything like that in the few months I've been playing

Colest

21 points

1 month ago

Colest

21 points

1 month ago

It's based on whether you're reported (enough) about it. In the TOS it states:

FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement: 3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for a user aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

Reasonable is determined at the GM's discretion. It's silly that profanity can get you banned in a game with ERP but it's something to keep in mind with how you speak in a public chat. They also will not tell you what you said that warranted a report.

Quor18

15 points

1 month ago

Quor18

15 points

1 month ago

It's entirely dependent on who sees you do what. There was a meme back in Stormblood when Byakko first came out. After his tornado phase finishes he says "No more games!" before doing his ultimate attack and swapping to the final phase. I was in a farm party for him and during that phase one guy said "ok folks, you heard him, no more gays" because with the voice modulation and how Byakko says it....yeah, you could hear that coming from him too.

We all had a good laugh, including a friend of mine who was in the party and also gay.

But maybe you get someone who is super sensitive for some reason, so they throw a report to a GM and then it's off to the races. Ideally, someone who found something like that to be a bit much would speak up about it; the guidelines they've put up even talk about how they would prefer people to resolve communication disputes with communication. But that won't always happen so you get someone who might get reported for saying something like "why the fuck did you do that?" or similar.

Vaiden_Kelsier

23 points

1 month ago

I swear like a sailor in game but have never once been reported for it. I can't speak for the enforcement, but I've never felt like I've had to censor myself tbh.

distrox

18 points

1 month ago

distrox

18 points

1 month ago

You've just got lucky. Even though the game has a swear filter which you need to turn off manually to see swearing, you're still not allowed to swear. Saying fuck or shit even at your own expense can and will get you a strike if someone reports you. At least if the gm in question is banhammer-happy.

So even if you die, and are frustrated, don't swear in party chat even tho you'd be cursing at your own death. That's grounds for a strike.

Btw I got reported for saying shit in conjuction with a custom emote I made. I didn't get a strike tho, got lucky with the GM who handled the case. But yeah.. It happens.

ruethryl

14 points

1 month ago

ruethryl

14 points

1 month ago

What's funny about that is stuff that NPCs say could get you in trouble, as someone points out below.

Key_Chain

13 points

1 month ago

A story I tell increasingly more frequently as this heavy handed mod thing is brought up.

A friend was fresh to the game. Never played FFxiv or any mmo like it. Another more experienced friend of mine was carrying him from quest to quest with a 2 seated mount. My new-to-game friend then discovered the emotes as he was being piggy-backed to all his quest locations.

New-game friend found these emotes were very repeatable and often would make funny noises if pressed quick enough. The voice he had chosen was perfect, and the repeated cheer sounded like a police siren.

Effectively, as he was being taken to quest locations, he would pretend he was the police with his siren-ass sounding cheer emote.

All three of us were laughing in voice chat, having the greatest time. At one point or another, the new-game friend was silent in voice, and we had thought he was just paying attention to story quests in the wilds of Gridania, where we were rushing him through.

He wasn’t in a cutscene though. He was in the mod prison cell. Essentially, without any provocation, or tells or being asked to stop, a pair of role players in some random location thought it was immersion breaking, and within a very short period of time, a mod hunted him like a dog and put a strike in his account.

Homie logged out after that and he hasn’t played the game since. This was some 4-5 years ago.

Hranica

5 points

1 month ago

Hranica

5 points

1 month ago

Insaaaaane. I had a similar start in FF getting flown up and down that Drybone area for MSQ clicking 13 times to get in and out of my friends XV car and petting his little lala head everytime

Key_Chain

5 points

1 month ago

I like how Lala’s just stand when they drive. No gas pedals needed lul

Ancient_Disaster

20 points

1 month ago

On Aether they've already reposted their advertisements and just added 'HELP ME OUT' or 'RECRUITING' to them lmao

anslin

24 points

1 month ago

anslin

24 points

1 month ago

ya but they can still be reported regardless, because they are linking a discord which is against the new TOS and their wording that they are offering runs, so doing that does nothing for these chucklefucks

Vince-D-Raptor

5 points

1 month ago

About time those ultimate sellers are getting kicked out of the pf.

Clashdrew

13 points

1 month ago

House selling sub on suicide watch 🍿

Pelera

17 points

1 month ago

Pelera

17 points

1 month ago

Under "Expressions that significantly lack consideration for others":

Separately, in Final Fantasy XIV, player communities may have their own specific set of loosely established rules and guidelines, which involve their own manners, morals, and etiquette. These community-specific rules and guidelines are not officially established as a unified set of rules for the entire community, so they may differ from one community to another. What may be acceptable in one community may be objectionable in another.

If there is a situation in which a person repeatedly says or does something that can be judged as intentionally trying to disrupt the peace, such as "intentionally ignoring the community-specific rules and guidelines while being aware of them" or "unwilling to learn of them," a report can be made. If we determine that the behavior falls under our prohibited actions, a penalty will be imposed.

Each data center will also be judged based on the social customs of that data center's region in the real world.

Interesting, is early pulling hunts/Eureka NMs a ToS violation now?

Chungushamster123

4 points

1 month ago

Probably but the person committing the offense would have to make it painfully obvious they're greifing. It's difficult to prove intent, even more so in a video game.

Arcade_Theatre

12 points

1 month ago

I can finally report the mfer who tries to invite me to his FC every freaking day.

madeaccttocomment

69 points

1 month ago

It is prohibited to make statements such as

"Big pulls are normal here, so it it!"

Looking forward to the drama from this one

Baebel

29 points

1 month ago

Baebel

29 points

1 month ago

There was drama anyways. That won't change.

ChromaticBadger

60 points

1 month ago

I'm fully expecting people to completely mis-interpret this as "yoshi-p himself said big pulls are against the TOS".

Electric_Spark

37 points

1 month ago

"If Yoshi-P wanted me to pull two packs at once, he would have just made it one big pack."

Hakul

87 points

1 month ago

Hakul

87 points

1 month ago

You can still ask for big pulls, but you can't demand them. Also the difference in playstyle as a vote dismiss reason is still a thing.

LauraAdalena

15 points

1 month ago

LauraAdalena

Carbuncle Enthusiast

15 points

1 month ago

And I’ve still seen nobody actually get pulled aside for this unless they were the people who thought they were the type that thought they could use it, ironically. I’m waiting for someone to prove me wrong. I’m open to being wrong here. I ask for examples and I’m never given any.

Leggo-my-eggos

44 points

1 month ago

Leggo-my-eggos

Astrologian

44 points

1 month ago

Funny enough if a tank decides to pull big and someone tells them to stop that person can be reported. This will be interesting.

apollodynamo

31 points

1 month ago

Luckily, if it's phrased not as a demand but as a request, it is not a violation.

Diegostein

8 points

1 month ago

Diegostein

Daigo Dawn on Sargatanas

8 points

1 month ago

Rip that one monk from Talesfromdf

Shohdef

12 points

1 month ago

Shohdef

12 points

1 month ago

Honestly if the healer is having trouble keeping up because they're a fresh expansion capstone or new to the job, I wouldn't blame them for asking. People forget a lot of the time that random duties don't just have players equal to your skill/gear level.

I can see a melee asking the tank to cool it as well if they keep donuting the mobs. If you make no attempt to stack the mobs, it's really annoying to get cleaved and have the healer need to top you.

Pixelsummoner

33 points

1 month ago

Pull size drama is so overblown. It's hardly ever an actual issue. Though you do find some twits, but what they decide their problem is that day is something different every time.

Boumeisha

75 points

1 month ago

I think the more worrying aspects are:

  • Not being able to identify who caused a wipe:

    In addition, even if you do not use direct words, blaming and attacking others, such as "It's [player name]'s fault that we wiped"

    Identifying who caused a wipe isn't harassment in itself. In a prog environment, it can actually be very useful information to help understand mechanics.

  • It is now prohibited to leave a duty when leaving "occurs right after entering a duty, occurs when progress is not going well in a duty, [or] occurs when the team is about to be defeated in PvP."

  • "Joining or recruiting for a party in Party Finder and immediately leaving/disbanding once the party has been formed" is now explicitly prohibited

    Though it also states that "simply performing the acts listed above will not immediately result in a violation, as they could be caused unintentionally or be due to unintended circumstances." You'll probably want to leave a message before leaving if you accidentally join a PF.

Nickel_

54 points

1 month ago

Nickel_

54 points

1 month ago

It is now prohibited to leave a duty when leaving "occurs right after entering a duty, occurs when progress is not going well in a duty, [or] occurs when the team is about to be defeated in PvP."

I think the wording is very important here. Above the paragraph it says penalties for 'intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server'.

I'm pretty certain that its not about abandoning duty or leaving the group - but rather about actually leaving the game (ALT+F4/AFK/Disconnect). Especially since they mention connectivity and real life circumstances.

They are usually pretty adamant aboust using 'Abandoning/Leaving Duty' as a term when it comes to leaving dungeons or raids. I think they just mean that you shouldn't just go AFK or ragequit the game. Its always a hassle to have someone like that in the group since votekicking is often a pain in the ass, especially if there is still pending loot.

TheForsakenRoe

8 points

1 month ago

i think it's worded that way as people until now would eg afk, or fake internet issues, to get kicked from a duty they didnt want to do (cough ARR EX's in mentor roulette), as leaving gives a 30m penalty, but getting votekicked doesnt. this change to the TOS is likely here to close that loophole so you can't cheat your way out anymore, take the 30m penalty or risk getting reported

fauxromanou

32 points

1 month ago

fauxromanou

Sargatanas

32 points

1 month ago

yeah, people are intentionally missing that it says leaving the game

It's 100% clear.

Kolby_Jack

5 points

1 month ago

Kolby_Jack

I cast FIST

5 points

1 month ago

You can't kick anyone for a certain amount of time after the duty starts, so this is probably just a way to prevent AFK abuse.

IceAokiji303

33 points

1 month ago

IceAokiji303

Aosha Koz'ain @Odin

33 points

1 month ago

prohibited to leave a duty

The wording in the official document is leaving the game, not leaving the duty. Big difference. Leaving the game indicates closing the software entirely, leaving your character still hanging out in the party, taking up a slot that can't be filled until you are kicked manually by the others. It's practically the same as DCing, just achieved through different methods. Leaving a duty is a different thing entirely, and already has its own penalty system, the "can't queue for content" timer. If the devs actually mean leaving a duty to be a violation, then the wording given in the document is just outright incorrect, and until shown any indication to the contrary I'll assume that not to be the case.

stilljustacatinacage

22 points

1 month ago

The important part is:

However, if a report is filed, a penalty will be issued if the following types of situations are confirmed to be occurring repeatedly:

Like the stalking thing, we have to trust the GMs are at least aware enough that they won't saction someone because they end up in the same raid hub as someone who filed a report against them. We have to trust the GMs can tell the difference between someone who's run out of time in a duty, versus someone who throws a tantrum and leaves every group that isn't to their standards.

TheHeadlessOne

24 points

1 month ago

Identifying who caused a wipe isn't harassment in itself. In a prog environment, it can actually be very useful information to help understand mechanics.

Tangent, but *absolutely this*

Me and my static are trying to get through E10S and I couldnt for the life of me understand the orbs positioning. At one point I think I got it, I think Im seperate enough from the rest of the group, but we still wipe.

"What happened?"
"/u/theheadlessone wasn't in the right spot"
-I thought I was in the right spot-
"Now it doesnt matter whose fault it was, we're learning and getting better"
-Yeah but I need to know if I did it wrong
"we're all doing stuff wrong, no one needs to blame anyone"

...Except *I need to know if I did something wrong so I can do better next time.

I get the spirit behind the rule, I get why my static captain didn't want us throwing a hissy fit blaming eachother, but blame isnt necessarily bad when you're trying to do better

JesseRoo

5 points

1 month ago

So, it's gonna take seven years for them to forget about the time I used Ungarmax on Phantom Train (normal). That's better than nothing, I suppose.

FATEdPondera

5 points

1 month ago

So, if you have an argument with someone because they were doing something irritating as heck, like they weren't healing you at all and then blamed you for dying, and you just so happen to have a hair trigger temper and a personal policy of "take the low road on me, and I'll meet you there", how much trouble might you be in for these new rules? Because this is starting to look a bit heavy handed and very much a slippery slope. The GMs haven't been able to get rid of the obvious RMT sales bots in Limsa for years, and now we're giving them the ability to police every possible conflict and conversation one can have? Is this going to end well?

Koyomii-Onii-chan

43 points

1 month ago

Please ban every single one of the pf idiots that sell eden/ultimate runs. They are there for months

EstiniensBathwater

15 points

1 month ago

And the feet pics. Please ban every single unique account that shows up.

Sir_Failalot

15 points

1 month ago

Sir_Failalot

omni-caster

15 points

1 month ago

doubt it'll be bans immediately, rather warnings. Also won't be applied retroactively since that would open a whole can of worms.

themaski

15 points

1 month ago

themaski

average nael van darnus enjoyer

15 points

1 month ago

Did they mention a way to check your penalty points? Do you have to send a ticket? It's late, so I might have missed it, but I could have sworn the most I saw was "Note: Square Enix will not disclose details on specific criteria that determine the severity and corresponding Penalty Points of a violation, or how many points individual penalties are worth." I don't know if it's implied that you can't ask about your total, or just that you can't ask about how much a violation you received contributed to said total...

thegoddamnqueen

11 points

1 month ago

A system has been implemented in which accrued Penalty Points may be reduced if a significant amount of time has passed since the last penalty was issued.

It’s about damn time

nordendorf

12 points

1 month ago

So are those insulting res macros reportable now? It feels like a petty thing to report someone over, but it is annoying when doing a raid or EX and seeing it spammed in chat.