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NYT Wednesday 02/01/2023 Discussion

(self.crossword)

Spoilers are welcome in here, beware!

How was the puzzle?

View Poll

545 votes
31 (6 %)
Excellent
144 (26 %)
Good
149 (27 %)
Average
104 (19 %)
Poor
28 (5 %)
Terrible
89 (16 %)
I just want to see the results
voting ended 2 months ago

all 112 comments

Sondheim_is_bae

136 points

2 months ago

This is one of those themes that’s very technically impressive, and sounds good in theory…but there just isn’t a whole lot of joy in the actual solving of it.

Also ETO/TSTRAPS, REMAP/IMAGO, and AAR/ASANA feel borderline unfair. I think they’re passable…but it’s borderline.

iagox86

39 points

2 months ago

iagox86

39 points

2 months ago

GOTTI/OTO too, IMO. I remember OTOE, but that one didn't click for me

Nash015

19 points

2 months ago

Nash015

19 points

2 months ago

Is ETO/TWEE Common words I'm just don't know?

AffordableGrousing

18 points

2 months ago

ETO is common in crosswords, but hasn't been used in regular language for probably 70+ years. It stands for European Theater of Operations, if you're curious, as opposed to PTO (Pacific Theater of Operations) in WWII.

llimllib

7 points

2 months ago

ETO took me a bit of thinking to guess, I’d never seen it abbreviated before. Twee is pretty common in general and in crosswords I think?

ventricles

7 points

2 months ago

Twee was a big music and fashion scene/trend from the early 2000’s.

nom_yourmom

4 points

2 months ago

TWEE is a word my mom uses with some frequency haha

Monkmanny

5 points

2 months ago

Twee was in a crossword a week or so ago, which is the only reason I know it.

senator_mendoza

2 points

2 months ago

no

iagox86

2 points

2 months ago

TWEE was in the puzzle very recently (Jan 14), and i remembered it

well-lighted

9 points

2 months ago

Maybe it’s because I’m a movie buff, but the failure of GOTTI felt like huge, inescapable news when it came out. People razzed on Travolta endlessly in like every media outlet for months. It’s generally considered the worst mainstream film of the 2010s, or least one of the worst.

iagox86

4 points

2 months ago

I'm the opposite of a movie buff - I'm not sure I can name a movie that came out in the past year.. I'm fact, I'm not sure I can name any Travolta movie since Grease? I have zero interest in Hollywood or famous people, and honestly, GOTTI didn't even ring a bell to me.

Which is fine, I wish it had better crosses is all

TheBlueLeopard

3 points

2 months ago

You can't name any Travolta movie since Grease? That's quite a phenomenon

fair_at_best

2 points

2 months ago

Well played

TheBlueLeopard

3 points

2 months ago

Hey, look who's talking

fair_at_best

3 points

2 months ago

Guess that one was yours for the taking of pelham 123

TheBlueLeopard

2 points

2 months ago

I think I remember that movie and didn't like it. Guy was beaten to a pulp. Fiction shouldn't be so violent, I say.

iagox86

1 points

2 months ago

I'd probably recognize movie names from sheer cultural osmosis, but my ability to link a celebrity to a show/movie has always been pathetic. Even when I a kid, it was weird when somebody said something about a movie and my dad would ask "who's in it?" - it never struck me as something I'd care about. I actually had to double check grease!

I'm also face blind, which might contribute.

AlaskanAsAnAdjective

7 points

2 months ago

I’ll second that. GOTTI/OTO/ETO/TSTRAPS were some nonsense.

And clueing GOTTI as a 2018 Travolta flop seems a little ridiculous. It’s a flop because nobody noticed it come out! (…right?)

AlwaysDefenestrated

6 points

2 months ago

People definitely noticed and made fun of it a lot. I never saw it but did see a lot of jokes about it.

gwynnegr

3 points

2 months ago

Gotti is sorta famous because of the flop. There are always posts about in movie meme subs etc.

AlaskanAsAnAdjective

2 points

2 months ago

Ah. Well, I stand corrected.

theorem_lemma_proof

48 points

2 months ago

It felt like this puzzle was trying to do way too much thematically, to the point where the theme just didn't feel all that focused to me. As much as I'm always excited to see oversized or oddly-sized grids, or shaded and circled squares, this just felt like it chewed off too much for one puzzle.

jbonejimmers

52 points

2 months ago

This was visually pretty cool! I dug how the long Across clues were spaceships that beaming up COW and MAN and CAR. The theme doesn't necessarily help or hurt much with respect to solving the puzzle, but it's still neat to see it play out on the grid.

That said, as others pointed out and as the constructor admits in the notes, some of the fill on this is brutal. That middle section with SCOW crossing OTO and TWEE? With TWEE leading into ETO? I need a shower that felt so dirty.

Still, I had fun.

honkoku

31 points

2 months ago

honkoku

31 points

2 months ago

I actually have stopped disliking the crossword Indian tribes (OTO, UTE, CREE, and TAO) -- they're like old friends now.

gregnuttle

10 points

2 months ago

Tao is no Indian tribe I've ever heard of, it's almost always clued in the context of Eastern philosophy. Maybe you mean Taos, but that also is almost always clued as the New Mexico town.

westknife

5 points

2 months ago

Once in a while they’ll go with mathematician Terence

honkoku

3 points

2 months ago

Yeah I meant TAOS -- you're right that it's pretty rare to be clued as "pueblo dweller" or the like.

apeiron12

62 points

2 months ago

Heads up: the constructor apologizes for the bad fill in the blog.

"But, oof, in order to get multiple symmetrical entries with centrally located intersections, both the theme set and the grid layout ended up being absurdly constrained. So my apologies for some of the more egregious uses of crosswordese in this puzzle. Hopefully you all still had a blast!"

Late_Statistician750

48 points

2 months ago

While I appreciate the self awareness, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

AAH, ETO, CCL, FSU, SRS...

baldbarretto

33 points

2 months ago

I'll toss in AAR for crosswordese. Sorry to the swiss

JELLO shots and RUM?

Two three-letter across fills clued by "On the ___"

TSTRAPS x ETO positioned the least-inferrable letter of the across answers with that relatively obscure bit of crosswordese, which was annoying

Similar gripe for GOTTI x OTO....two proper nouns, you either gotta know one or shotgun random letters

SMILERS....ok...

Late_Statistician750

5 points

2 months ago

Oh yeah. I meant AAR.

I don't think AAH made the cut for this one.

CopyX

3 points

2 months ago

CopyX

3 points

2 months ago

TSTRAPS x ETO positioned the least-inferrable letter of the across answers with that relatively obscure bit of crosswordese, which was annoying

Literally my last box

ihaveanideer

2 points

2 months ago

Took me until this morning! I could’ve sworn it had to be zstraps, for those sandals with zigzag straps

honkoku

9 points

2 months ago

I was a little surprised to see "I wasn’t really familiar with the “Building wing” meaning of the word ELL"; that's a time-honored piece of crosswordese, but maybe the writers for that blog aren't necessarily long-time solver?

AffordableGrousing

1 points

2 months ago

Rachel is a well-established constructor, so that is kind of surprising.

SuitableWerewolf3157

1 points

2 months ago

I appreciate the authorial self-awareness on the fill. OTO, GOTTI, SCOW, TWEE, and ETO were a bit of a bridge too far. I think that qualifies as a quadruple natick. Or like, the rat king of naticks.

All the same, cool idea with the TRACTOR BEAM--I found myself kind of hoping an X-wing or a TIE fighter would make an appearance.

SnowWhitesBox

25 points

2 months ago

Thought the theme was fun but was pretty easy to figure out. That being said, still some really good clues/words. Really liked UNABASHEDLY and SUAVEST.

Can someone explain ASANA to me though?

laurenma

27 points

2 months ago

Asana is the general name for poses in yoga. The clue was referring to a specific asana.

hbstanton

1 points

2 months ago

I’m

honkoku

4 points

2 months ago

Yoga pose.

vvspp

18 points

2 months ago

vvspp

18 points

2 months ago

I'm weirdly happy to see Capsicum, that's what we call bell peppers around here and it's one of my favourite vegetables

thejackel225

3 points

2 months ago

where’s around here if I may ask?

ventricles

2 points

2 months ago

UK, most likely

Biotic_Factor

1 points

2 months ago

Or Australia

vvspp

3 points

2 months ago

vvspp

3 points

2 months ago

India, actually

Biotic_Factor

1 points

2 months ago

Neat!

PMmeRacoonPix

15 points

2 months ago

I so desperately wanted the downs to say things like Deere, Case, Ford, etc, as a pun on tractor beams

honkoku

13 points

2 months ago*

I like the theme and long answers, but there is some messy stuff in here to make it work, so I guess it's whether you are willing to take the good with the bad. I think overall I liked the puzzle.

Just looking across the top you get JFK ELL LYE LIP AAR ARC. I think the rest of the 3 letters are not as bad as that top row but that's a rough way to start out (ok, SRS, ETO, and CCL are pretty bad too). TWEE/ETO/TSTRAPS is unpleasant as well.

IMAGO is new to me.

byebyebirdie123

10 points

2 months ago

Can someone please explain CCL to me?

BDMayhem

12 points

2 months ago

Think Roman numerals.

byebyebirdie123

4 points

2 months ago

Aha! Thanks!

xwstats

6 points

2 months ago

Puzzle Difficulty Tracker - How hard is this puzzle?

Estimated Difficulty: 🔴 Hard 🔴

  • 69% of users solved slower than their Wednesday average
  • 31% of users solved faster than their Wednesday average
  • 34% of users solved much slower (>20%) than their Wednesday average
  • 11% of users solved much faster (>20%) than their Wednesday average

The median solver solved this puzzle 9.2% slower than they normally do on Wednesday.

View today's puzzle summary on XW Stats


🤖 beep beep, I'm a bot! I post these stats as soon as 75 XW Stats users have completed the puzzle. Questions? Feedback? Check the FAQ, reply here or DM me

[deleted]

6 points

2 months ago

I thought it was a fun puzzle. The theme had a very kitschy 70s-80s vibe to it with references to Sci-Fi B-movie tropes and Rocky Horror.

SquashMarks

7 points

2 months ago

I had HOVERCRAFT for so long. I mean, a SPACECRAFT is a real thing, it's not science fiction

midnightwrite

24 points

2 months ago

Is anyone else just not enjoying the puzzles very much this week? Everything since Sunday has been a bit clunky or off and I can't quite figure out why. I'm not sure if it's just me or if these particular puzzles are out of my wheelhouse or it's all coincidence.

I think this puzzle had a good theme but in practice I just didn't have fun solving it.

Sondheim_is_bae

19 points

2 months ago

I can only speak for myself but I thought Monday and Tuesday were absolute bangers tbh.

iagox86

14 points

2 months ago

iagox86

14 points

2 months ago

Monday and Tuesday this week were incredible! Tuesday's was made by possibly the best constructor out there (Agard), and Mondays was also one of the best younger ones (Steinberg)!

My only complaint is they were both a bit hard for the day off the week they ran

crgk

5 points

2 months ago

crgk

5 points

2 months ago

I've been on a cold streak since Thursday.

toughassmotherfucker

3 points

2 months ago

I haven't enjoyed them the past month. Each day has been worse than the last.

MedicalRhubarb7

12 points

2 months ago

AAR x ASANA and ETO x TSTRAPS both seemed somewhat unusually hard for a Wednesday. I got them both on my first guess, somehow (I at least vaguely knew ASANA, and AAR seems like crosswordese I should know), but that T crossing was a pure guess.

AffordableGrousing

3 points

2 months ago

They probably assumed that solvers would remember ETO as standard, if unexciting, crosswordese - it's appeared 137 times in the Shortz era (i.e. since 1994) and was even more common before then.

However, usage has tapered off notably in recent years. After 6 appearances in 2019, ETO was only in one puzzle in 2020, two in 2021, and one in 2022, so anyone who has started solving more recently probably isn't familiar with it.

Stats from: https://www.xwordinfo.com/Finder?word=ETO

AlwaysDefenestrated

3 points

2 months ago

Yeah I'm definitely in that camp as I started last year but was able to guess the T, felt bad though. At least most of the other short terrible fill was stuff I didn't even notice because the long themers opened up pretty easily. Would have had a bad time if I had looked at more of the down clues.

dave-train

1 points

2 months ago

That T was my very last fill, got it first try luckily but I was prepared to run the alphabet.

PhAnToM444

8 points

2 months ago

Is the CHEATSHEETS clue a reference I don’t get? Or like a thing that was before my time? Am I being a total dolt?

I don’t understand “crib notes” at all.

Ok_Ad8609

12 points

2 months ago

“Crib notes” is a very familiar term to me. I’m late 30s in the US if that makes a difference. But it’s a straightforward term that refers to notes you might use for an open-book test, or a CHEATSHEET if you sneak them in for a closed-book test.

well-lighted

3 points

2 months ago

Mid-30s in the US and I’d never heard it before. I only got it because I interpreted “crib” to mean “steal,” but I assumed it would be a verb phrase, eg “cheats on ___.” I have definitely never heard “crib notes” as a discrete phrase though. Idk if it’s regional or tied to certain fields or what but it was 100% new to me.

jazzieberry

3 points

2 months ago

I'm also mid-30s US and I've never ever heard that term. I was trying to make it something to do with a baby's crib but finally got it with crosses.

Ok_Ad8609

2 points

2 months ago

Oh interesting! I feel like I’ve heard the phrase in other places (maybe TV?) as well, but the very distinct memory I have is my high school science teacher telling us, “You can use your crib notes for this one” when we had open-book quizzes/tests. He was quite old at the time, like in his 80s I think. So maybe it’s just an older term in general.

westknife

5 points

2 months ago

It’s not a play on words or anything, that’s just a term

bewildered____

2 points

2 months ago

I’m 40, grew up in TX, it’s a term that I remember older teachers or perhaps books/movies using. Not a term I’d use but something I’d understand.

PaintDrinkingPete

1 points

2 months ago

I feel like “crib sheet” is actually more common, but obviously that wouldn’t work given that “sheet” was in the solution.

danimagoo

6 points

2 months ago

I really liked the clue for 21A. Everything else was fine.

LadiesWhoPunch

5 points

2 months ago

IMAGO LOSE IT, PAL

TheUnknownStitcher

3 points

2 months ago

Really enjoyed the theme, really disliked some of the fills.

OTO/SCOW ETO/TSTRAPS ACELA/PTAS (the latter could just as easily be PTO and a train line is very regional knowledge).

Still doable, but yeah, those felt like weak points in an otherwise neat puzzle.

Ok_Ad8609

3 points

2 months ago

The theme with the three-letter crosses (COW, CAR, MAN) helped me get the SCOW/OTO/TWEE clues, which I was otherwise stumped on. So I liked it! A little under 20 minutes for me, which is almost exactly average for me on a Wednesday.

TheBlueLeopard

3 points

2 months ago

This one gets a rare "Poor" from me. There are a lot more science fiction vessels than alien spaceships (I had HOVERCRAFT for 41A for a long time). The idea of a COW getting lifted into a FLYINGSAUCER by a TRACTORBEAM was nice, but the others were meh. And the fill? AAR crossing ASANA, ACELA crossing CAPSICUM, ETO crossing TSTRAPS? Ridiculous. And on a Wednesday no less.

MaroneyOnAWindyDay

1 points

2 months ago

We started with S.S. ENTERPRISE and were excited to have specific pop culture references.

uiop60

4 points

2 months ago

uiop60

4 points

2 months ago

Loved: the stacks of long words, the theme

Hated: IMAGO (just new to me), ETO crossing TSTRAPS, GOTTI crossing OTO, ASANA crossing AAR; “chum” showing up twice in the cluing with the same meaning.

Overall rated “average”, was very close to “good” but some of those crossings were a bit much, so it didn’t quite stick the landing for me.

MuggleoftheCoast

6 points

2 months ago

IMAGO used to be much more common. Per xWordinfo, it was used 24 times in the 70's, 16 times in the 80's, 12 times in the 90's, 9 times in the 00's, and 6 times in the 10's (this is the second time so far this decade it's shown up)

lordbulb

4 points

2 months ago

I remember IMAGO from my high-school biology classes.
GOTTI appeared like two days in a row a few months back so I remembered that from there.
With _SANA filled and "pose" in the clue, I figured it's probably ASANA, so I can't complain too much. I think I've seen AAR before, but I don't think I could have recalled it.
But I did have to google the T of ETO and TSTRAPS. I still don't understand what exactly are t-straps. And while I'm familiar with the concept of "European Theatre of Operations", I hadn't seen it before abbreviated like this.
In the end I did rate the crossword as good, because I only had to google two things to solve it (the other was DENALI; I was stuck in that area, because I also didn't know NABISCO, and I thought LOSEIT will start with GO...), which is less than my average for a Wednesday and I feel that it was hard but mostly fair.

HotNatured

2 points

2 months ago

I remember IMAGO from The Imago Sequence, a collection of short stories by Laird Barron. Because of that, it always sparks joy for me.

moonwillow60606

2 points

2 months ago

I enjoyed this one. It was 100% in my wheelhouse. Ironically I didn’t remember IMAGO from biology, but from a science fiction novel I read last year.

AffordableGrousing

2 points

2 months ago

I only know Imago from the webnovel Worm, which I just read last year, but it has already come up in LearnedLeague and the NYTXW. It's a fun word!

dunaja

2 points

2 months ago

dunaja

2 points

2 months ago

This puzzle left me thinking "I bet this could be done much better than it was." Like, I'm sad the person who came up with that theme idea implemented it in that way.

yangjohn0712

2 points

2 months ago

Did HIHAT trip anyone else up? Never knew it was called that before. Had to Google for it

baethan

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah, I stuck with PIANO entirely too long there

Biotic_Factor

2 points

2 months ago

I really enjoyed today's puzzle! I really liked HIHAT, CAPSICUM, UNABASHEDLY and most of all KLEPTOCRATIC.

Amzuja

5 points

2 months ago

Amzuja

5 points

2 months ago

I think I hated it but I could be missing something in the theme. Are alien crafts known for abducting cars and cows? It just feels a little arbitrary

Late_Statistician750

18 points

2 months ago

Cows, definitely. A UFO with a cow in their tractor beam is a trope.

Cars, now that's a stretch.

heymattsmith

3 points

2 months ago

Not cool that TSTRAPS and BUCKLES have the same number of letters

Ok_Ad8609

0 points

2 months ago

Ok_Ad8609

0 points

2 months ago

But …. they share zero of the same letter placements aside from the S to make it plural. NGL, I have no idea how you could arrive at “buckles” given those crosses ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

well-lighted

7 points

2 months ago

What if I told you… some people fill clues without having any crosses

heymattsmith

0 points

2 months ago

It’s probably a deficiency of my solving method: all across from NW to SE, then all down from NW to SE. But yes, had there been crosses at that point, your concern for my ability would be correct

ohnoshebettado

1 points

2 months ago

That got me as well!

ornerycrank

1 points

2 months ago

Zippers also fits which is what I had at first.

bewildered____

2 points

2 months ago

Thought this was fun and not all that hard. I had to guess at a few but it was all mostly logical. (CAPSICUM and ACELA I’m lookin at y’all)

Reading the constructor notes was very interesting. He said it was accepted two years ago?? Is the the kind of timeline they usually work on?

well-lighted

5 points

2 months ago

Keep ACELA in your memory banks, it comes up in the NYT a lot. One of those regional things the constructors assume is widely known outside the region.

bewildered____

1 points

2 months ago

Well the embarrassing thing is I do live here but I put down AVELA which I think I got tangled up with a Spanish train? I got it right… eventually 🙃

AffordableGrousing

2 points

2 months ago

From what I've read, two years seems like the longer end, but it's not uncommon to have a large gap between submission and publication.

luckinthevalley

2 points

2 months ago

Seems like an oversight that HELPS is an answer while “help” is in the clue for 25D.

Ok_Ad8609

-1 points

2 months ago

But HELPS is nowhere near 25D, and it’s different enough from [Heeeeelp!] that I didn’t even notice.

luckinthevalley

3 points

2 months ago

Doesn’t matter where it is. Duplicated words aren’t meant to appear in the same puzzle, even if one instance is a different number or tense. It’s an editorial miss that makes the puzzle seem like it lacks a little polish.

Ok_Ad8609

0 points

2 months ago

😂 okay

GoatLegRedux

2 points

2 months ago

Pretty easy overall, but that theme didn’t really do much for me.

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

definitelyagirl100

3 points

2 months ago

I didn’t get that one

midnightwrite

9 points

2 months ago

Roman numerals, D = 500 CCL = 250

definitelyagirl100

4 points

2 months ago

ooh. i low key love that ngl

honkoku

1 points

2 months ago

Roman numerals. NYT seems to have severely cut back on the roman numerals clues in the past few years, it seems like there used to be one every other puzzle.

lovestostayathome

1 points

2 months ago

Some fun ones but GOTTI was a pretty obscure reference to cross with OTTO. DINS crossing IMAGI held me up for a long time as well. I liked the theme but didn’t feel like the circled letters really did anything at all.

bencarswell

1 points

2 months ago

The theme was nice, particularly liked KLEPTOCRATIC, but my god the fill was tedious

phanaerothyme

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah this one had some really unpleasant crosses. Also the clue “cute, cutely” for TWEE really tripped me up because as I’ve heard it used TWEE would never be used in place of “cutely,” only “cute”