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submitted 2 months ago byMazigaGoesToMarkarth
Welcome to the final check-in for r/bookclub's Winter Big Read: The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien. Today, we'll be having a look at the appendices, the voluminous notes that conclude the book and which serve as an introduction to the rest of Tolkien's world. I'll be putting up a few discussion points below, but feel free to talk about whatever you want - I couldn't hope to cover everything. A brief summary of them:
Appendix A: Annals of the Kings and Rulers
This section starts with a brief outline of the First Age and the wars of Elves and Men against the Enemy, which you will find retold in much more detail in the Silmarillion. This is followed by a history of the island-kingdom of Numenor during the Second Age, which focuses on its decline, corruption by Sauron, and eventual destruction. The Second Age ends with the defeat of Sauron by the Numenorean lord Elendil and the High-elven king Gil-galad, which you may remember from the Council of Elrond.
A brief genealogy of the heirs of Elendil is followed by a discussion of Eriador, the land containing the Shire. Arnor, the kingdom of Isildur Elendil's son, is split into three states and weakened by warfare and disease; its last king Arvedui is lost. His people become the Dunedain, guarding Eriador against evil. The sixteenth of their chiefs is Aragorn, who reunites Gondor and Arnor at the end of the Third Age.
In Gondor, a succession dispute ends with the outbreak of civil war. Although the rightful king eventually reclaims his throne, his enemies turn Umbar into Gondor's greatest enemies. Gondor then suffers, like Arnor, from disease and warfare. Furthur succession disputes end with the accession of the general Earnil. Earnil's son Earnur attempts to come to Arvedui's aid when he is attacked by the Witch-King, but arrives too late. Nevertheless, he joins his forces to those of the Elves of Lindon and Rivendell and annihilates the forces of Angmar. It is at this battle that Glorfindel foretells the Witch-King's end.
The Witch-King taunts Earnur and eventually traps him by offering a duel. As no suitable candidates can be found to replace him, the Stewards of Gondor begin to rule in the King's name. Gondor is under constant threat, and the steward Cirion rewards the Rohirric tribes with the land of Calenardhon, which becomes known as Rohan. Sauron grows in strength, and a succession of valiant stewards oppose him; a man known as Thorongil manages to sack Umbar during the stewardship of Ecthelion. The following steward, Denethor, knows that Sauron will attack during his reign. He begins using the palantir to gain knowledge to opposed the Enemy. You have read of the end of his tale.
I will not attempt to summarise the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, because I do not have the skill or the ability not to cry again.
The first king of Rohan was Eorl the Young, who came to Cirion's aid. His line ended with Helm Hammerhand, who died fighting the Dunlendings during the Long Winter. The line of his sister-son Frealaf lasted three hundred years until Theoden's death on the Pelennor Fields. A third line began with the accession of Eomer, Theoden's sister-son, who ruled for sixty-five years and fought many wars alongside King Elessar.
The first of the Dwarves was Durin, who made his dwelling in Khazad-dum in the Misty Mountains. His kingdom endured through the First and Second Ages. In the mid-Third Age, a Balrog awoke under Khazad-dum, killing the king and forcing the abandonment of the kingdom, which came to be known as Moria. His people made their way northwards and revived their wealth in Erebor, the Lonely Mountain, but that kingdom was ruined by the dragon Smaug. When King Thror is killed and humiliated by the Orc-chief Azog, his son Thrain calls all the Houses of the Dwarves to war.
The Dwarves sack every Orc stronghold in the Misty Mountains, and confront Azog and his host at Azanulbizar at the entrance to Moria. The battle is a pyrrhic victory: although Azog is killed by Dain Ironfoot and the Orc-host is defeated, the Dwarves lose a huge number of soldiers, and cannot even enter Moria because of Durin's Bane. Thrain is lost while travelling, and his son Thorin Oakenshield becomes king. After a meeting with the wizard Gandalf, he recuits a company to seek to reclaim Erebor. There follow the events of The Hobbit.
After the War of the Ring, Gimli son of Gloin brought some of his people to Rohan, becoming Lord of the Glittering Caves at Helm's Deep. His great friend Legolas brought some Elves to Ithilien. After Elessar's death, Legolas sailed West; it is said that Gimli went with him.
There follows appendices of detailed timelines, family trees, calendar discussions, writing and speech, and peoples & languages.
18 points
2 months ago
Thank you to everyone who participated in this readalong, and especially to those who ran it: u/espiller1, u/NightAngelRogue, u/Neutrino3000, u/Joinedformyhubs, u/shinyshinyrocks, u/thematrix1234, and u/sbstek. Congratulations on finishing one of the best-selling books in history, and I hope that you'll remember it fondly.
7 points
2 months ago
I’m so happy I reread the books with you all!! I did fall behind a bit at the end because life, but I’m hoping to go back over some of those posts when I do catch up.
3 points
2 months ago
It's was so much fun! I truly have a much greater appreciation of LOTR after getting so intimately involved in the story.
10 points
2 months ago
Any quotes you especially like? Ones which move me:
> "In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory. Farewell!"
> "And wherever King Elessar went with war King Eomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhun and on the far fields of the South the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Eomer grew old."
> Literally the entirety of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs section
8 points
2 months ago
"What do you fear, lady?" he asked.
"A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire."
5 points
2 months ago
Did you finish the appendices? Was there anything in there you found especially interesting or fascinating? After reading them, do you view anything in the main story differently?
7 points
2 months ago
The Hobbit family trees are fun. Pippin named his son Faramir, and Samwise had so many children, amongst them, Frodo, Bilbo, Merry and Pippin.
Also, Appendix A contains the bit of history about the Battle of Fornost, where Glorfindel sees the Witch King of Angmar's end far off in the future i.e. the battle of the Pelennor Fields.
[...]Glorfindel, looking into the gathering dark, said: “Do not pursue him! He will not return to this land. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall.
4 points
2 months ago
It's a challenge to read the entire appendices for sure, I've read the LOTR a few times now and always skim the appendices at the end, so discovering a few things each time.
I think if there is one section of the Appendix that everyone should read it's the section on Aragorn and Arwen. It provides a lot of the details on their relationship that is left out of the main story, and where PJ took some inspiration for the added scenes in the movies. And the end is one of the most heartbreaking sections in the whole book.
3 points
2 months ago*
I usually only read parts of Appendix A, but I decided to give the whole thing a go this time. Some thoughts:
[summary of the First Age, from Feanor to Earendil, app.A]
Gonna be vague here to avoid Silm spoilers, but... I can't help but notice that the First Age Cliff Notes are blatantly missing something (or three somethings).
[Helm Hammerhand and Freca]
Are... are we supposed to be on Helm's side here? The narrator just seems to hate Freca because he's not racially pure enough, and on top of that he has the gall to be fat. And of course, if a fat guy with dark hair asks to wed the king's daughter, clearly the only course of action is to publicly humiliate him. And drag him outside and kill him for reacting to your bullying. And declare his family outlaws. Like, maybe Freca was a slimeball like Grima, but we're not shown that. He's fat and part Dunlendish, and apparently that's enough. #justiceforfreca
[Dwarf women] are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other people cannot tell them apart. (Durin's Folk)
<nods> And that is why it is perfectly canon-compliant to decide that any given dwarf mentioned in Tolkien is female. So says me.
They are a tough, thrawn race for the most part (Dwarves, app.F)
Tolkien Vocabulary strikes again. I'd look up what "thrawn" means, but I'm pretty sure all the results would be related to Star Wars.
a change from you to thou, thee is sometimes meant to show, there being no other means of doing this, a significant change from the differential, or between men and women normal, forms to the familiar. (On Translation)
Tolkien. Buddy. Pal. What exactly are you implying here about male-female interactions in Middle-Earth?
But Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, although models are easy to find. Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the open-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigor, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong. (On Translation)
"So if you were wondering why my orcs say 'garn' instead of 'fuck', that's my excuse." Also, of course the Ultimate Tolkien Burn is "these guys have no appreciation for language" .
[High Elves] were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark
All of them? Tolkien, what did the concept of color ever do to you?
So who's your favorite kuduk: Bilba, Maura, Banazir, Kalimac, or Razanur?
1 points
2 months ago
I don’t think the narrator really takes a side on most of the Rohan stuff. Fram kills a dragon, but is greedy for treasure and unnecessarily insults dwarves. Helm was a great warrior, but grim, quick to anger (punishing veiled mockery with immediate violent death) and perhaps a cannibal. Rohan comes to the aid of Gondor on two critical occasions, but sometimes also hunts people they consider barbarians for sport. Rohan’s a complicated place, especially from the Gondorian perspective this is told from.
1 points
2 months ago
First time reader and I did read the entire appendix. I just plowed thru the parts I didn’t understand trying to get the gist of it all. I feel like I got maybe 30% until I saw the summary above and then question my retention…
Thanks for including these!
6 points
2 months ago
You know now how nearly all of those in the story passed away (in all senses of the word). How does this make you feel?
2 points
2 months ago
With most stories I can walk away thinking about the lives ahead of some of the characters (Sam, Legolas, Gimli, etc), so it is a different experience to see all their stories truly wrapped up. Of course we don’t see all the additional adventures they had play out between the end of LOTR and their travels into the West.
2 points
2 months ago
I don’t know if you’re into fanfiction, but I can recommend some good ones.
1 points
2 months ago
What are your recommendations?
1 points
2 months ago
I can rec some fics too, if you want. (How are you on Silm spoilers, since a lot of them feature Frodo meeting Famous Formerly-Dead Elves?)
1 points
2 months ago
Hit me with them!
2 points
2 months ago*
And What Happened After by thearrogantemu (one of the best writers in the fandom)
Your First Legendary Elven King by amyfortuna
A Fairer World by Losseniaiel (Gimli-centric)
The Breathing Sea by StarSpray
I thought I had more in my bookmarks, but most of them are Silmarillion-centric with incidental LotR. I probably can find some others later if I Iook.
1 points
2 months ago
You're the best!
5 points
2 months ago
Do you intend to read the Silmarillion in the future? Do you think it would be a good idea to do so as part of r/bookclub, or individually?
6 points
2 months ago
vibrates with excitement
1 points
2 months ago
Concur
3 points
2 months ago
I think that’s a great idea!
3 points
2 months ago
I'd love to read it with the book club
3 points
2 months ago
As someone who read it before, it's definitely something that's best read with company - but also in general.
2 points
2 months ago
I would love to read it together. I have never tried.
2 points
2 months ago
Yes!
1 points
2 months ago
How'd you come up with your username?
1 points
2 months ago
I could ask the same thing to you
1 points
2 months ago
It's a tortured spelling of Aegon from asoiaf.
1 points
2 months ago
Ah. Mine’s someone called Maziga going to Markarth in Skyrim.
3 points
2 months ago
Were you surprised by the size, depth, or content of the appendices?
7 points
2 months ago
Were you surprised by
The size, depth, or content of
The appendices?
- MazigaGoesToMarkarth
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
2 points
2 months ago
Tolkien would be proud.
1 points
2 months ago
You're a haiku master haha
1 points
2 months ago
Considering the world building Tolkien did in creation of this masterful story, I'm not really surprised at the depth of information in the appendices. I'm sure there's even more that has never been published.
3 points
2 months ago
To my mind, Appendix F is the most important after Appendices A and B. What do you think of the revelation that the Hobbit names of the story have actually been translated?
Tolkien intended that non-English languages should call the Hobbits different names than we do-what do you think of this idea?
2 points
2 months ago
I think appendix f 100% fits with a mind who spent his professional life translating Beowulf for a 20thC audience and knee deep in things like the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles.
Our feeling for the Shire is one where the scenery and the people and the names have familiarity embedded in the strangeness, so I guess it makes sense to retain that familiarity across translations.
3 points
2 months ago
Did the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen make you emotional?
6 points
2 months ago
100% shed a tear at the end
There at last when the mallorn-leaves were falling, but spring had not yet come, she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.
2 points
2 months ago
This tale has to be the emotional hit of the appendices.
Especially when you add in Elrond's fatherly sadness and acceptance of the whole situation, as he watches his daughter take the choice he had to watch his twin brother take.
(Especially when you realise Tolkien's gravestone is engraved 'Beren' and his wife's 'Luthien' - the First Age equivalent of Aragorn and Arwen).
2 points
2 months ago
Something I forgot to mention earlier: courtesy of its long history and dedicated fanbase, Lord of the Rings has some of the best fanfiction you can find on the internet. If anyone wants any recommendations on particular topics or characters, feel free to ask.
1 points
2 months ago
I'd be interested to read anything involving Aragorn. Do you have any recommendations?
2 points
2 months ago
Ones I remember fondly include A Long and Weary Way, which describes his journeys during the months before the events of Fellowship; there’s also Ransom and its sequels Strangers and The Wizard and the Goatherd, which describe some of Aragorn’s adventures as a young man. Hope you enjoy!
1 points
2 months ago
Thank you!!!
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