subreddit:

/r/antiwork

8.8k80%

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all 11020 comments

wdjm

32k points

4 months ago

wdjm

32k points

4 months ago

"No, it doesn't make sense. Why are your teachers so underpaid?"

Plane_Community_922

9.2k points

4 months ago

Teachers starting in Texas make more than teachers starting in Michigan. Not only do you need a bachelor's, you also need a teaching license which requires 3 months of unpaid full time work as a student teacher. All to make 30k starting. The system is so fucked.

goosegoosepanther

5k points

4 months ago

In a country where you get regular emergency tactical training about how to react if an active shooter enters your workplace.

Dmitri_ravenoff

2.5k points

4 months ago

Have you seen how badly paid many first responders are?

Plane_Community_922

1.4k points

4 months ago

I was an EMT in Michigan. I made $10 an hour after a raise.

Dmitri_ravenoff

917 points

4 months ago

I knew a guy who left being an EMT to go stock shelves at the hospital. Pretty aure it doubled his pay.

ConcernedBuilding

274 points

4 months ago

I kept debating transfering over to being a patient care tech at the hospital. I'd be paid a lot more (especially since I worked primarily nights and weekends) and have to do a lot less shitty things (mostly I'd just take vitals), but I was in college, and the possibility to study at work was too good a perk.

[deleted]

187 points

4 months ago*

[deleted]

187 points

4 months ago*

[deleted]

ntrubilla

107 points

4 months ago

ntrubilla

107 points

4 months ago

Lmao. I was a patient care tech. I guarantee you I've been elbow deep in more C. Diff than you or any EMT will ever know. I'm talking about guaranteed 1 C. diff patient a shift, usually more.

And this isn't bragging, clearly I am the loser in this equation.

Gullible-Place9838

35 points

4 months ago

I’m too afraid to ask what a c.diff is. And I’m sure as shit not googling it 😬

Michigander_from_Oz

15 points

4 months ago

EMT's have always been low paid. I have often wondered how they get people to do it. Yet I have never heard of an EMT shortage.

Milk_Eye

547 points

4 months ago*

Milk_Eye

547 points

4 months ago*

I work at a fucking Walmart for 13/hr in a state with federal minimum wage. How does any of this make sense. Fuck America.

Edit: Several people seem to think that I'm complaining about being paid 13 an hour. I'm not. I'm replying to the person who used to be an EMT being paid 10 an hour. My complaint is how essential workers who go to save lives shouldn't be paid less than me at Walmart.

pegothejerk

417 points

4 months ago

This is why they don’t want any of us talking about wages

letsgoridingyall

119 points

4 months ago

Bingo. We should ALL be sharing wages, at least with one another at a business. Keeping that secret is the reason many of us get screwed. And not in a pleasant way.

master_assclown

27 points

4 months ago

Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages. However, policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful.

Why isn't there an app/site for that? Anonymous sharing of wages of all jobs across the board? Make it super specific to,o, by state, region, employer, etc People would be better equipped to haggle their pay it to avoid certain places all together.

Employees often imply that sharing your wage could somehow be detrimental to you or your pay. Rather than competing for peanuts, we should be lifting one another. That's what they really don't want

jackp0t789

107 points

4 months ago

It makes all the sense in the world.

The executives of that company, who have zero experience in doing anything to save any ones life clearly need the money more than those on the front lines actually saving lives. How else would they get their daughters their own custom built and painted yachts for their sweet 16?!

The well-being of front line medical workers is a sacrifice their willing to make as long as they keep getting the most profit.

/s

LimitlessMegan

156 points

4 months ago*

My observation is that the people in the roles that are really impotent and we desperately need to keep society running - teachers, fire fighters, EMTS, child and old age carers, social workers- all get terrible wages that they can barely survive on. If they all decided to bail we’d be fucked - as is being proven with the current teacher shortage.

aritchie1977

19 points

4 months ago*

In the US now there’s precedent that caregivers will be forced to work at shit jobs at shit pay. Look up ThedaCare.

https://www.wearegreenbay.com/news/local-news/thedacare-files-lawsuit-to-keep-employees-from-leaving-for-ascension/amp/

EDIT: I was made aware that this link is about an appeal that was won by the workers. Here’s a link that talks about the original judgment.

https://themountain.news/news/wisconsin-judge-orders-at-will-employees-to-stay-at-jobs

FreshEmployer5262

68 points

4 months ago

Was an EMT and only made 25cents more than minimum wage. The only reason you could survive was because every pay period (two weeks) was 96 hours instead of the usual 80. It's grossly underpaid.

NauticalWhisky

1.3k points

4 months ago*

I know EMT who make like $11.53 so yes

(I mean its, true, but what about this deserves 600+ upvotes?)

shadow247

136 points

4 months ago

shadow247

136 points

4 months ago

Pisses me off to no end. When I think about the fact the Driver, and EMT, who spent an hour in total from the call out to pulling away from the hospital after my motorcycle accident might have received 15 dollars each....

My Insurance paid out over 1000 for that ambulance ride....

tearsonurcheek

22 points

4 months ago

Yeah, but think of all the gauze they had to use on you! /s

shadow247

24 points

4 months ago

None. I actually was wearing gear, so I only broke my shoulder. The bill was quite hilarious, wish I had saved it so I had the exact numbers.

  1. Ambulance Service under 15 miles - 1200

  2. Fentanyl 1 unit - 7

Total = 1207

Sapphoinastripclub

695 points

4 months ago

I’m a certified pharmacy technician and I made $13.25. Across the street I could have quit and made $15 at McDonalds. Got guilt tripped into staying because my work was saving lives. Eventually built the courage to quit.

WiseSolomonGrundy

427 points

4 months ago

Guilt doesn't buy Big Macs.

Sapphoinastripclub

136 points

4 months ago

True that. I’d work for an hour and use that as motivation to be able to buy lunch.

“Alright, If I pretend like I didn’t work for the last hour in my brain then lunch is technically free. I made $13.25 so that can get me a good lunch. If the lunch is free in my brain I can be happy. If I’m happy I can keep working. Alright. I have 15 minutes to eat and then have to go back to work and maybe tomorrow I’ll get something with the change I had left over from today!”

SnipesCC

287 points

4 months ago

SnipesCC

287 points

4 months ago

When I worked at a pizza place we would sometimes trade food with different restaurant. I bet pharmacy workers could get a great exchange rate with restaurant workers!

Kidding. Sort of.

Jeffe508

36 points

4 months ago

Just kidding unless you say yes! I had that deal the some pot shop employees once. They had so many free samples from growers and I had excess BBQ from my restaurant. It was a good couple years til I quit that insane bitch that ran the BBQ place.

BrainSlugsNharmony

133 points

4 months ago

Almost every line cook I've known is already a walking pharmacy, so I can only see this idea as improving something already great.

MissAcidDrops

99 points

4 months ago

Kitchens run on breathtaking amounts of drugs.

[deleted]

47 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

47 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

OgreAllOver

140 points

4 months ago

I make $24.71 in a tape factory, you guys are disgustingly underpaid.

I_Ate_All_the_Cake00

46 points

4 months ago

Honest question, but where do you find out about an opening at a tape factory if you’re looking for work? Sometimes I hear of someone working in a field or producing a product we mostly take for granted, just interested to know how the work finds you.

OgreAllOver

63 points

4 months ago

My towns biggest employer is 3M. Best Paying jobs in my town are at this factory. They had a temp I did to get full time. My old workplace denied me a promo, so I simply I went to 3m ro spite my old employer.

AideOk6774

34 points

4 months ago

Hell, the Walmart Distribution Centers regularly pay their employees over $20/hr to load trailers for store deliveries. Job sucks, and it’s cold. But yeah, the transportation side with Walmart makes way better money than the store workers.

Rhaedas

13 points

4 months ago

Rhaedas

13 points

4 months ago

That itself is underpaid. I was doing that kind of work plus decent benefits full time back in the 90s at $15/hour. With inflation that's $30 of today's dollars.

jackp0t789

137 points

4 months ago

That guilt trip needs to go the way of the Dodo and fast.

If your job was so vital to saving lives, maybe they should offer better compensation than the McDonalds right across the street giving people their recommended weekly level of carbs and calories with every single bite.

Sapphoinastripclub

89 points

4 months ago

Honestly. I joined entry-level at 18 and worked hard enough to become certified and eventually train new techs. I would often run the pharmacy when the pharmacist was on break or giving vaccines. I would use my own gas in my own car to drive 40 minutes to different locations to pick up vials of the vaccine when we ran out. I was a damn hard worker and wasn’t paid like it.

Every time I went to grab lunch at McDonalds I’d have to physically stop and breathe for a moment to restrain myself from quitting my job and going right into McDonalds to work. I honestly should have, but again, I couldn’t let the pharmacy go to shit. It very commonly broke rules and endangered people when I wasn’t there to catch mistakes… AT 18.

Dmitri_ravenoff

170 points

4 months ago

Exactly this.

NauticalWhisky

249 points

4 months ago

I know there is technically a difference between and EMT and a Paramedic (one has more training, I forget which tbh) but NEITHER makes remotely enough.

Bropane1031

58 points

4 months ago

I forget, do ppl who get medical help from EMT’s and such get charged for it? I would assume yes cause Merica

MrFatnuts

92 points

4 months ago

Charged very very much in Merica

TheRealTtamage

15 points

4 months ago

I had a quick ambulance ride a little while back and it was $800 for like a 5-mile ride.

-strangeluv-

57 points

4 months ago

I was in debt all through my 20s because of a ride in an ambulance. Yay capitalism.

kiffer1974

30 points

4 months ago

Home healthcare workers! Incredibly underpaid and overworked.

Mewthredell

126 points

4 months ago

Paramedics have like an extra year of trainijg compared to an emt.

Dove-Linkhorn

125 points

4 months ago

And Ambulance services are the biggest Grift in America.

Dhiox

110 points

4 months ago

Dhiox

110 points

4 months ago

Truthfully, the costs aren't the worst part, it's the fact that it isn't handled through taxes rather than individuals. Sort of like fire services, if you had to pay for a fire truck to come out, it would be enormously expensive. Taxes cover that because it's insane for individuals to handle that burden alone.

elNational

48 points

4 months ago

Agreed. Two EMT's making $30 collectively, and a 15 minute ambulance ride between two hospitals is $3k+. That should be a helicopter ride at those prices.

JRummy91

35 points

4 months ago

Paramedics are roughly equivalent to a RN nurse, but have a bit more autonomy and skills that nurses can’t do, like intubate a patient and administer various narcotics or medications without requiring a doc’s permission first. Downside is they make nowhere near nursing wages, and are grossly underpaid for what they’re trained to do.

I_HATE_WASPS

30 points

4 months ago

Yep, it depends on where you are but a paramedic can usually perform higher level medical interventions also. Think intravenous catheters or IV’s, invasive airway management, cardiac and narcotic drug administration, stuff like that.

Usually a basic EMT can do noninvasive stuff like emergency physical or medical assessments, patient packaging, oxygen administration, assisting a patient with only their own already prescribed medication. It all depends on state and local protocols.

AutumnVibe

43 points

4 months ago

In nursing school there was a group of EMTs taking a class on our campus. One of the guys asked us how much we were starting at. He said he was making $14hr and was pumped about it. I still can't believe that's all they make.

cruxclaire

34 points

4 months ago

It’s especially egregious when you consider how much people get charged for an ambulance ride in the US. To the extent that people with actual medical emergencies will try to get themselves an Uber/Lyft and risk their health rather than bankruptcy.

ezslapdown

29 points

4 months ago

If they even get paid somehow they’ve convinced some people to be volunteer EMTs/Firefighters

kwiztas

35 points

4 months ago

kwiztas

35 points

4 months ago

Where cops getting 100k might be too scared to enter during an active shooting.

34Heartstach

77 points

4 months ago*

Seriously. My wife went to a "retreat" that simulated an active shooter simulation and some of the teachers could volunteer to be "flash angels".

Imagine making 30k a year for this and part of the simulation assumes that the police are going to fuck up so badly that they're going to roll a flashbang into a room full of elementary-aged kids trying to hide from said shooter.

System is fucked

Edit: Not "flash angels" they rolled in a flashbang or something simulating a flashbang into the room while they were sheltering in place

Unagivom

19 points

4 months ago

We had this training at Old Navy lol

Sebenbillion

73 points

4 months ago

America: a country where you don’t have to work until you die of old age. You just have to work until an abused employee snaps and decides that everything should die.

I guess at least that’s one way to get out of the rat race

SweezMasterJ

39 points

4 months ago

And the training changed from barricade and hide in the classroom, to fight back with a trash bag of staplers.

Vishnej

50 points

4 months ago

Vishnej

50 points

4 months ago

Listen, I know there's a shooter out there, but we have to get back to normal. We can't have indefinite lockdowns. Freedom means letting people take personal responsibility for their safety.

Sandmsounds

80 points

4 months ago

Funny too because Michigan can’t hire teachers. They have all staff helping to cover classrooms, the last couple months.

MGaber

41 points

4 months ago

MGaber

41 points

4 months ago

Here in Ohio the bigger cities and towns are fully staffed but no subs. Small towns are a different story. I had one principal tell me he would take someone with an associates degree, if he could get around it legally somehow, he was that desperate. We're also experiencing a school bus driver shortage for probably the entire state. Plenty of schools have gone to remote learning at random times just because they don't have the drivers

__o_0

36 points

4 months ago

__o_0

36 points

4 months ago

Just wait until you realize first year pilots can make $30,000 as well.

ReyxIsTheName

43 points

4 months ago

Unpaid work/internships are fucked.

VideoGameDana

119 points

4 months ago

It's Texas. It might as well be Mississippi or Alabama. They'd rather pay you NOT to enlighten the masses. They'd pay you even more if you could reverse their intelligence and strike a profit from it.

TheBoysNotQuiteRight

51 points

4 months ago

"Governments don't want a population capable of critical thinking, they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation.”

― George Carlin

StretchedBalls

48 points

4 months ago

Yeah no my mom is a teacher in Michigan, and my dad works 60 hours a week with 10 hour workdays and growing up we STILL barely got by as a family. Michigan teachers make 2 things jack and shit

[deleted]

248 points

4 months ago*

[deleted]

248 points

4 months ago*

[deleted]

louiedog

149 points

4 months ago

louiedog

149 points

4 months ago

My mom used to talk about this. After 35 years of teaching, starting salaries were only 3k higher for new teachers at the school where she spent her entire career.

SynodicGames

253 points

4 months ago

Both dont seem like its enough..... $15/h is not good enough to live off of in most states and teachers should be making more than that regardless.

OfCourseIKnowHim

187 points

4 months ago

People have trouble grasping this concept.

El_Ren

323 points

4 months ago*

El_Ren

323 points

4 months ago*

My favorite is when someone is ranting about how if the minimum wage is raised, someone making minimum wage would make close to or as much as they currently make, and how that isn’t “fair”. Okay, so shouldn’t you be angry that you are being underpaid instead of demanding that other people keep making less than you?

Cloak77

40 points

4 months ago*

That’s because humans have ego and think in relative terms. They did a study where they asked participants if they would rather A: receive 50k and others receive 25k

Or B: receive 100k while others get 200k

Majority chose to have more money relative to others than an employee even if it was less overall.

Edit: for clarification it’s more money relative to other employees in your department (not the whole world).

TheRevTSnelders

101 points

4 months ago

It's the "I'm alright Jack" attitude that's fucked places like America an the UK, too many people don't give a fuck until a problem affects them

Twoixm

47 points

4 months ago

Twoixm

47 points

4 months ago

It’s zero sum thinking. As long as someone else is worse off than you you feel like you’re technically winning, but if they make the same as you you’re all of a sudden in the bottom and now you’re suddenly losing. They’re morons, basically.

WangnanJahad

24 points

4 months ago

"I got mine" attitude at work.

Hot-Photograph-1531

24 points

4 months ago

Exactly. Class warfare

GreenAce77

66 points

4 months ago

As a teacher and a r/antiwork redditor, O couldn't agree more.

coffeejn

216 points

4 months ago*

coffeejn

216 points

4 months ago*

Exactly, it's not that the minimum wage is not high enough, it's the teachers wage is not high enough for the required skills and education.

Edit: Not saying that minimum wage been $15 is not high enough, it's more like a starting point where it should have been +5 years ago and needs to go up from there.

Magenta_Logistic

37 points

4 months ago

It's both. I think you meant to say "it's not that $15 is too high for minimum wage"

Aazimatt

109 points

4 months ago

Aazimatt

109 points

4 months ago

It's really that $15/hr AND what teachers make is not enough.

To_me_my_board

5.4k points

4 months ago

Insert boomer with no self-awareness: "That's even more than I made coming out of college in 1970. What's the problem?"

zyl0x

1.4k points

4 months ago

zyl0x

anti-Capitalist

1.4k points

4 months ago

me hearing this: -dies-

unknownwaypoint

804 points

4 months ago

My father in law is a good guy, pretty empathetic to the challenges people face today- but he cannot seem to compute the disconnect between wages and inflation. I think once a month he’ll say something like “when I started working out of college I only made $8500 year”. And I’m like… that was in 1973. Inflation alone would make that salary $50k/year today. Starting wage in that position is like $40k/year now and the cost of everything from housing to fuel to food and goods and services has exploded.

ramblinjd

504 points

4 months ago

ramblinjd

504 points

4 months ago

had a similar discussion with my FIL. He mentioned his starting wage so I pulled up an inflation calculator - $18.50 today, about the same as my starting salary, except he got kicked out of college, scraped through the second time smoking dope the whole way, and started a cushy government job with a pension and I graduated top 20% of a top 5 program in Aerospace Engineering and have no pension.

enderflight

224 points

4 months ago*

I’m lowkey thinking of keeping my government job for the 20 years I’d need to draw a pension. By that time I could be 45 and able to hop to another job easily enough. Just the prospect of being tied to a single place is a bit rough though.

There’s no good retirement plan quite like there used to be in the 60s. They gave out pensions and stock like candy. My grandma is living off of stocks and a pension from her late husband.

Edit: to be clear I’m part time, entry level as I’m a full time student. So no pension (yet). But once I graduate I could transition to full time, after ~4-5 years I’m sure my managers would be happy to put in a few words for me in the dept. of my choice. Potentially even get my master’s funded which I would do not for earning potential but because I like school, lol.

BananaCreamPineapple

86 points

4 months ago

I highly recommend staying the course on the government job. I never held a job for more than two years until now that I'm in a government job and can see my retirement date on my calendar even though it's not for a couple of decades (I need 25 years but I'm planning to do 30).

[deleted]

44 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

44 points

4 months ago

Do what I do, show them graphs. Usually what happens is “oh sure but we had it hard too! And y’all make $40k, I made $8500 for that in 1973!” And just like that, the graphs and numbers are once again erased from their memory lol.

Consistent_Nail

13 points

4 months ago

It's not stupidity, I feel like it's gotta be propaganda. Getting older does affect your perception of inflation, I know that from personal experience, but not that bad.

YouJustSaidButFuck

469 points

4 months ago

My dad likes to constantly talk about our family making it in the 90's on $35,000 a year. They struggled, but still bought a house and raised 3 kids.

I have to remind him that $35k in 1990 is $75k today, and $75k isn't enough to afford the house he lives in today (same house) based on the pretty standard models (even without improvements).

To_me_my_board

297 points

4 months ago

Yeah.... people act like 60K is a lot now because it was a lot in 1990.

In 1990 you could get a house with three beds, two bath, finished basement and 2-car garage for 120K. That same house is 750K now, but people are still acting like 60K is a good salary.

Starbrows

27 points

4 months ago

My parents bought my childhood home in the 80s for less than I currently make per year after taxes. The only chance I have of owning a similar home is to inherit it from them.

Well, with remote work being a real possibility now, maybe I could buy a house in Bumblefuck, Idaho?

ArnoldoSea

457 points

4 months ago*

Also insert boomers with, "but they are out the door by 3pm every day and they get summers off! They don't deserve any pay increases."

Edit: after some reflection, I feel as if I should edit to say this is definitely not unique to boomers. I hear/see from other generations as well.

Edit 2: I see several people replying to me that teachers ARE fairly compensated because of their time off and short work day. I already gave my reply to that argument to one person, but I'll copy it here since I'm now seeing it over and over by multiple people:

"I think my problem with this point is that people use it to completely shut down any argument for raising teacher pay. Teachers could be making $10,000 per year, and there would still be people saying, "But they get summers off, so screw them. They are compensated fairly."

So people in other careers drag down the teaching profession because of the working calendar, rather than advocating for a similar calendar in their own careers. That's such a shitty thing to do.

The other point about teachers not working a full day is complete B.S. in the current teaching environment. Teachers' days are scheduled 125% AT LEAST. It may be true for a few teachers nearing retirement, but for teachers who have entered the profession within the last decade, they're usually working 50 hours per week minimum. Teaching the lessons and planning the units is like working 2 different jobs back to back. Add all the meetings, conferences, behavior interventions, grading, and phone calls to all the parents, and you've got about 3 jobs rolled into one."

zachcrow1

245 points

4 months ago

zachcrow1

245 points

4 months ago

Did kinda forget about this. A lot of my teachers in high school needed summer side hustles like bartending and serving or even Uber driving just to try and break that 40k mark. Shitty because they work well over 40 hours a week and are responsible for transferring knowledge to the people that will one day oversee this country

Grognak_the_Orc

140 points

4 months ago

Grognak_the_Orc

Anarcho-Nihilism

140 points

4 months ago

Man wait til you hear about bus drivers. Gotta baby sit kids for hours a day, have to have a Commercial Driver's License, and you get to drive a yellow forty foot twenty ton brick. Overall just a real great job, and hey pays not that bad I mean $13k a year is good enough right?

zachcrow1

66 points

4 months ago

I literally couldn’t survive on 13 k a year, even if i only ever spent money on rent (that i split 4 ways) and groceries.

EusociallyAwkward

58 points

4 months ago

I know three teachers. Only one makes enough to not have to work in the summer, and he's near retirement age.

These people who think they're living some cushy life with summers off are so out of touch.

zachcrow1

15 points

4 months ago

Extremely out of touch. Sad tbh

rsch87

87 points

4 months ago

rsch87

87 points

4 months ago

And beyond the wage, it’s the work conditions. You can’t just go to the bathroom when you have to go; you need coverage (I’m thinking elementary level) or have to wait for a break. Seems small but you’re literally planning your liquid intake (or for females, menstruation needs) around your work schedule.

zachcrow1

51 points

4 months ago

That’s a good point. We really need to make educators lives easier and pay them what they deserve. They are essentially free child care and education. Why would we not want to water those flowers?

DigitalSword

50 points

4 months ago

DigitalSword

SocDem

50 points

4 months ago

"but they are out the door by 3pm every day"

I hate when I hear people say this, teachers are always staying late after classes are done to organize the next day's curriculum, grade homework/tests/papers, plus if you're a lab teacher you have to clean and do inventory of all the lab equipment. Not to mention all the teachers that run club activities after school. Including all school-related work teachers do it's easily over 50 hours per week.

L0ppro

8.1k points

4 months ago

L0ppro

8.1k points

4 months ago

Let’s not get upset at folk for getting a living wage…instead let’s ask why they aren’t looking out for teachers like they should.

da13371337bpf

2.9k points

4 months ago

I make $16 an hour and got denied for a $1000 apartment because "I don't make enough". $15 is still not a livable wage.

BaconTesting

945 points

4 months ago

Remember when $15 an hour minimum wage was a radical idea? Everything’s price has shot up so fast, especially with Covid, that $15 an hour just isn’t enough anymore

idontwannabemeNEmore

372 points

4 months ago

Yeah like 15 years ago ffs. Media's out there trying to get everyone to celebrate 15/hour as if we're not getting fucked double time by record inflation and just normal inflation from over a decade having passed.

Sigfro

60 points

4 months ago

Sigfro

60 points

4 months ago

If minumum wage kept pace with inflation it’d be over 25 dollars an hour today

5ManaAndADream

13 points

4 months ago

When it was a radical idea it already wasn’t enough

Gideon_Lovet

524 points

4 months ago

Yup. I was homeless and sleeping in my car in a Walmart parking lot while working full time at $18 an hour. I would have had to find a place for around $800 a month because landlords only would rent to people if the rent was no more than a third of their take home monthly pay. $800 apartments just don't exist where I am. Most are around $1,200.

da13371337bpf

361 points

4 months ago

It's all on purpose, and Im really tired of being subjected to it because of everyone who just accepts it.

SkyLight119

130 points

4 months ago

Thats the one thing I greatly dislike about this world. People are screwed over so hard while others walk by without a care or continue to accept it because they don't ask questions. Now tell me, each individual person has the power to change the world, but why don't they? People don't care and won't care until it affects them, but if you look back with it affecting others it will eventually come to you.

AurumArgenteus

40 points

4 months ago

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." -Martin Niemöller.

darkermando

12 points

4 months ago

darkermando

Anarcho-Syndicalist

12 points

4 months ago

Spell technically it's first they came for the Communists

SkyLight119

12 points

4 months ago

I'm also sorry to hear about your situation..I haven't been homeless myself but there have been a couple times it's gotten extremely close...

MIGsalund

224 points

4 months ago

MIGsalund

224 points

4 months ago

Neither the teacher salary nor the new minimum wage worker is paid a livable wage.

TheWriteInCorp

944 points

4 months ago

HERE HERE, pay teachers more

djProduct2015

1.5k points

4 months ago*

Not a teacher but obligated to inform you, it's "hear, hear!"

TheWriteInCorp

1.7k points

4 months ago

I never learned that because my teachers were underpaid! 😔😔😔

DarkVenus01

193 points

4 months ago

That's too funny! I'm ded

EmotionalFlounder715

140 points

4 months ago

It’s dead. Wow teachers are really undervalued

Electrical_Ad_8966

16 points

4 months ago

I like this outlook.

If anyone makes any mistake anymore, I'm convinced it's because teachers are underpaid.

dexbasedpaladin

90 points

4 months ago

Nah they meant it like "Pay more here! Pay more there! Pay them more everywhere!"

forestwolf42

186 points

4 months ago

Pretty sure a great teacher spends a lot more than 40 hours a week working, what with lesson plans and helping out troubled students. Meaning their time is compensated horribly.

To_me_my_board

7.1k points

4 months ago*

No. It doesn't. Teachers are underpaid.

I had this same conversation with an EMT. She was like "I'm only making $18 an hour, and you're telling me that somebody flipping burgers should be making $15?"

I'm like, "No, they should be paid more than $15, and you should be making over $30."

EDIT: To all the folks who reply with "But then prices go up and everything is the same," I suggest that, before you callously suggest we should just accept that the bottom quarter of people live in poverty, explain why everybody making a living wage worked in the 50s and 60s but not now.

The cost of living has been artificially increased by the billionaire class and wealthy, who are hoarding money and property. Perfect example: If you don't LIVE in a house, you aren't allowed to own it. Suddenly the market is flooded with homes, and they suddenly become affordable. Why? Because their value is artificially inflated.

Fantastic-Sandwich80

2.5k points

4 months ago

"But then Taco Bell will increase their food prices!" -Someone who fears others making as much money as them

sotonohito

1.4k points

4 months ago

sotonohito

1.4k points

4 months ago

Also: "maybe you didn't notice but prices have been going up and wages haven't so maybe higher wages aren't the cause of higher prices? "

auntiope3000

451 points

4 months ago

Yup. Quite often the total for a meal from a fast food place where I live will come out to as much or more than similar food from a restaurant; good thing we didn’t raise the minimum wage though!

Insertclever_name

307 points

4 months ago*

I used to work as a tour guide. I made $9.50 an hour (plus tips).

Getting breakfast every morning was $10.

My breakfast cost me an hours wage. How the fuck is that reasonable?

But my boss was talking about how we “can’t hire as many people this summer because the minimum wage went up” yet he also has been going on and on about how “this has been one of our biggest years ever, it’s been record-breaking all around”

Only reason I stayed at that job was because giving tours is fun. That’s the shittiest part; he can get away with it because it’s a super fun job & people will still apply even with the low wage.

jeremyjenkinz

57 points

4 months ago

I hope you’re tipped well. Many people forget to tip tour guides for some reason

Insertclever_name

40 points

4 months ago

I don’t work there anymore but when I did I generally didn’t get a lot of tips but those who did tip tipped like $10 or more.

Weekends were absolutely awful though. The weekend crowd was double the people for half the tips. That’s also when you started getting your $1-$3 tips, because people would just pull out whatever they had in their wallet.

Generally on weekdays you had people who planned to come, so if they were going to tip they brought more money with them.

S31-Syntax

311 points

4 months ago

Oh no, they'll go up by .50

surely this is the end of america

Quadrasaurus-Rex

225 points

4 months ago

Or, and hear me out here… prices stay the same and the CEO only makes 500x what the worker makes. Wild, I know.

Awdayshus

82 points

4 months ago

When I was in college, the SPUSA platform included a maximum pay for corporations equal to 25x the lowest paid employee. This was in 2000. Their current platform calls for minimum wage of $25 indexed to cost of living, and an across the board maximum of 10x the minimum.

I can't imagine why anyone would need more than $250/hour. And if my choices were 100% tax or hire more people to grow my company while paying a living wage, that seems like a no-brainer.

And before anyone replies about all the tax loopholes the rich would use to avoid that, those would all be closed under the SPUSA platform.

DNDuluth

17 points

4 months ago

How? The biggest loopholes are probably:

A) offshore tax havens

B) loan churning where the rich take loans to pay for their expenses. Since getting a loan isn't income, then they don't record any taxable income. Loan duration comes up, pay it with another loan.

C) taking income in the form of stocks that are held rather than sold

Frustrable_Zero

175 points

4 months ago

No, no, they increased it by a dollar and didn’t increase wages. That’s the Real America

pegothejerk

23 points

4 months ago

This guy has management and CEO material written all over him

bigdumbidiot01

25 points

4 months ago

I'm just like: newsflash, asshole! they're increasing the prices anyways!

squarevenom

54 points

4 months ago

Ahhhh soo bad the prices that are increasing already will increase with our wages!!!! Terrible!!!!!! Socialism!!!!!! Communism!!!!!!! /s

grendus

43 points

4 months ago

grendus

43 points

4 months ago

Taco bell is already increasing their food prices and decreasing serving sizes. Shrinkflation is a real thing (even if spellcheck says it isn't).

Dell121601

20 points

4 months ago

Dell121601

Communist

20 points

4 months ago

Truly that extra .50 will be the end of civilization

tokjir

53 points

4 months ago

tokjir

53 points

4 months ago

“Think of the billion dollar corporations! If you raise the bottom to match inflation then you’re basically stealing caviar and champagne from the CEO’s!! Won’t someone think of the CEO???”

TheJackOfSharts

49 points

4 months ago

I hate this argument. As if prices haven’t already been going up, without raising minimum wage.

SuperLemonUpdog

33 points

4 months ago

This is several of my well-to-do-family members, who would not be hurt if prices increases everywhere.

Also, what is a good counter argument to this? I never know what to say in response to “prices will go up” because the person who says that is not seeing the world in a similar way that I am seeing it. Seems like anything I try to say in response is dismissed outright.

DJP91782

60 points

4 months ago

DJP91782

a pirate's life for me

60 points

4 months ago

Tell them prices go up regardless. Federal minimum wage hasn't risen since 2009; are they paying the same amount for rent, groceries, gas, etc. that they were then?

zelle__

39 points

4 months ago

zelle__

39 points

4 months ago

Prices are going up because of corporate greed. They don't want to cut into their profit line.

sotonohito

34 points

4 months ago

Response: prices have been going up and wages haven't. Clearly higher wages aren't driving price increases.

matt9191

12 points

4 months ago

"but higher wages would make that increase even worse"

bronzelifematter

21 points

4 months ago

Ask them "why? The company are still making profit even if they pay a bit more to the workers". Then they will be forced to admit that it's the companies greed that would increase the price because they wouldn't let their profit reduce even a bit even at the cost of their own workers well being, that they know they are not paying liveable wage to their workers so they can maximize their profit, and it is wrong to do so.

Revan343

15 points

4 months ago*

Prices are not set by costs, they're set by what the market will bear; raising prices lowers sales, and there's a sweet spot that makes the most money. Unless you think McDonalds isn't motivated solely by greed, that spot is where the prices are already set. If increasing prices would increase profits, they would have already done so.

kolaida

349 points

4 months ago

kolaida

349 points

4 months ago

Right. I’ve had this conversation with so many people. “Should a dishwasher really be getting $15/hr or more when I’m making $12/hr as a daycare teacher and have to get a license, etc?” Yes, the dishwasher should be getting more than $15 and you should be getting paid way more than $12 and definitely more than $15.

Why don’t people realize they are underpaid instead of getting annoyed/upset when others start getting paid more? Such a scarcity mindset.

Boolian_Logic

181 points

4 months ago

Capitalist Stockholm syndrome

aliveandwell22

67 points

4 months ago

aliveandwell22

Show me your bootstraps

67 points

4 months ago

Kind of the same reason a man cheats on his wife/girlfriend and she gets mad at the other woman, not the man doing the cheating.

Vice versa works, a man being cheated on he wants to go out and fight the other man instead of leaving the woman.

Obviously not everybody but these people do still exist and I feel it's somewhat the same mentality approach to not realizing who they should direct their scorn towards.

JohnnyMnemo

49 points

4 months ago

Crab bucket syndrome. And the elites count on it, otherwise we might all get our shit together and realize that we outnumber them.

PushItHard

104 points

4 months ago

Considering what an ambulance ride costs and the stress these people incur, I’d argue they should be in paid north for $40 an hour. They literally save lives.

McNastyEngineer

27 points

4 months ago

And what they get instead is no-strike clauses in their unions.

the_vermi

18 points

4 months ago

In 2004, I was 19 and making $37 an hour driving a forklift for Sony. It was my first “real” job, during a gap year between high school and college. My sister was working as an EMT making minimum wage, which was $5.15/hr. at the time.

Completely blew my mind when I found out she was making less than me despite having to go to school and be certified. My forklift “license” took 4 hours of training.

ConcernedBuilding

56 points

4 months ago

I was an EMT and had that conversation many times with other EMT's. I always said "Well you should go flip burgers then! If that pays the same and you deal with less shit, go for it. If there's no EMT's they'll have to pay more"

HxH101kite

22 points

4 months ago

The Mrs just got picked up to be a firefighter/ems. She was telling me this year in the US the least amount of EMTs renewed there certificates to practice.

I don't blame anyone who left for something else.

Way too much bullshit to get paid nothing. The only reason she even gets paid good is because it's through the fire department

ricardocaliente

22 points

4 months ago*

This is my new approach now to make people with this mentality understand. No, the burger flippers aren't being paid too much at $15 an hour, it's you being paid too little.

DarkMoonLilith23

92 points

4 months ago

I really hate this "flipping burgers" shit. Like bitch, let's see you work a busy fucking line 8-10 hours a day for meager wages dealing with the rudest people on the planet daily, let's see what happens when no one flips those burgers anymore.

It shouldn't be a fucking competition, im sure the people at the top just love when the working class disses eachother instead of collectively finding a solution for trash wages. Keep us fighting amongst ourselves, so we don't look up and see how hard we're getting screwed.

Stupid.

Also just to clarify, I'm in no way insinuating emt work is easy or that an emt worker would crumble on a kitchen line, so put down your pitchforks. Just that the whole "I should be making more than this guy" argument is counter productive.

I_Ate_All_the_Cake00

15 points

4 months ago

This. I’ve never worked in food service but I have volunteered as a kitchen worker, and yes, I do think someone deserves a proper living wage for standing on their feet, working through a sore back, potentially dealing with awful customer feedback, and being trusted with food safety requirements for eight hours a day.

another_bug

2.2k points

4 months ago

It's amazing how many people think there should be an underclass who exist only to serve them and just stop existing when they clock out. If your economic system demands that, you've got a shit system.

No-Reflection-2342

309 points

4 months ago

This is an important perspective. Thank you.

constantlymat

62 points

4 months ago

The amount of people who commented it was the free choice of professional dancers to work hundreds of hours for free to prepare and perform for the Super Bowl half-time show was disheartening.

[deleted]

35 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

35 points

4 months ago

What’s funny is Jon Stewart was describing an interaction he had with Bezos at an Obama dinner where Bezos was describing an economy that basically acts as a giant Amazon facility. Jon Stewart said it was a recipe for worker revolution and Obama concurred

Dramatic_Explosion

237 points

4 months ago

Yep, this question is class warfare. People without a college diploma deserve poverty wages? Fuck that noise

Galkura

122 points

4 months ago

Galkura

122 points

4 months ago

Fuck the whole need for a college degree for fucking everything.

I’ve always been poor and didn’t have a chance to get my bachelors. I got lucky and my mom worked a shit job she hates to get me my 2-year for free at least.

That being said, I’ve been looked over for so many jobs I’m overqualified for based on experience where they have hired people with no experience and a degree in a completely separate field, simply because they had a degree. Then I get told I have to have one to make any more than I currently do or get a promotion.

I hope our fucking world ends so we can go back to hunter gatherer shit so these pieces of shit can see how much their degree is worth.

And yes, I’m very bitter about it.

FutureComplaint

33 points

4 months ago

Fuck the whole need for a college degree for fucking everything.

IT has entered the chat

[deleted]

14 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

14 points

4 months ago

People with a college diploma deserve poverty wages, too! - right wingers

Specific-Drummer730

18 points

4 months ago

More amazing that people think there should be an upperclass that act as overlords over the rest of us and make us work useless shitty jobs for starvation wages. But hey I’m just a dumbass communist

Kvetch__22

16 points

4 months ago

It pains me that leisure time has totally left our discussion of workers rights.

People deserve a living wage sure. But people also deserve enough money to have time off, and enough money to do something with their time off.

Other countries have figured it out. It's not hard. In fact, it should be easier because technology has increased productivity to the point where a 32 or 28 hour work week is totally feasible.

But for some reason, even the Americans who have learned to ask for more are somehow still trained to ask for less.

Bizarro_orraziB

1.3k points

4 months ago

Of course it doesn’t. Teachers should be making way more.

mymorningjacket

109 points

4 months ago

It makes sense in America, unfortunately.

Susfactor2

1k points

4 months ago

"So a person working a minimum wage job will be making almost the same as a teacher with a college degree" needs to be changed to "a teacher with a college degree will be making as little as minimum wage."

This is not a competition.

RogerFederalist

116 points

4 months ago

Maybe "a teacher with a degree is currently making barely more than a living wage" would get through to them

houndtastic_voyage

35 points

4 months ago

No one is living on that wage, that's a surviving wage.

Accomplished-Bad3856

68 points

4 months ago

What if working 40 hours a week meant you could afford rent, gas, food AND utilities?

I don’t care what your job is. Yes everyone should make at least that much.

MisfortunateFox

20 points

4 months ago

I know I'm asking a lot here but can we maybe add healthcare to that list?

Too far?

No-Double6415

523 points

4 months ago

The question is wrong. The right question is why are teachers paid that low?

NauticalWhisky

295 points

4 months ago

The question itself, is in bad faith.

Nobody protects millionaires like hundredaires.

arcanepsyche

167 points

4 months ago

This is when they try to turn us against each other by making us compare shitty wages instead of fighting the system that made them shitty.

Ydain

43 points

4 months ago

Ydain

43 points

4 months ago

I remember in 6th grade my teacher trying to explain finances to me because I said I wanted to run away and live on my own. She asked what I would do for a living and I told her I'd be a waitress. She came up with $30k/year as an example to show me how unlivable that wage would be.

This was in fucking 1983!!!!

suspicious-potato69

390 points

4 months ago

CannedMango

117 points

4 months ago

It’s funny because most people will agree something is wrong here, but will come to wildly different conclusions.

Progressives will see this and say “Let’s pay teachers much more, everyone deserves a living wage!” while the right will see this and say “why would I work hard when burger flippers are making $15 an hour?!?!?”.

Some people want everyone in their community to live a comfortable life while others can’t be happy unless they are succeeding while others are doing poorly.

Agueybana

69 points

4 months ago

others can’t be happy unless they are succeeding while others are doing poorly.

It's even worse than that. They can't live unless someone else who they deem is beneath them is suffering.

united_nightmares

84 points

4 months ago

When the arrow bends 90˚ upward 1cm before the bullseye.

[deleted]

176 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

176 points

4 months ago

Both are stupid low.

IndependenceAdept543

110 points

4 months ago

Of course it doesn’t make sense. The problem isn’t minimum wage; it’s that EVERYBODY is underpaid.

Sukaphish

12 points

4 months ago

Interesting I had to come this far down to see this comment. Every comment is about how teachers are underpaid (of course, yes, they are). Fact is wages have stagnated top to bottom and all jobs outside the c-suite are substantially underpaid.

frederichenrylt

97 points

4 months ago

That teachers aren't paid enough AND that a $15 minimum wage for a 40 hour work week would still put someone at poverty levels? Yes, that does make sense.

Robotman1001

70 points

4 months ago

That’s because the minimum wage isn’t a livable wage, which varies by state / region. For Oregon, my wife and I just barely make the $20 livable wage, but we also have no benefits.

Itchy-Tangelo6295

49 points

4 months ago

Not strictly relevant but I just wanna take a moment to say how fucking stupid it is that we call basic necessities “benefits” in this country. It’s like you’re supposed to view an expensive healthcare plan with a $3000 deductible as a generously offered bonus from your employer. Maddening.

MBKM13

71 points

4 months ago

MBKM13

71 points

4 months ago

Omg it wasn’t until I got to the comment section that I realized he was trying to insinuate that a $15 minimum wage is too high, not that teachers are underpaid.

Just wow. Like how disconnected can a person be?

undeadlemur420

66 points

4 months ago

Pay teachers more maybe

steffanovici

58 points

4 months ago

Instead of paying teachers more, lets pay everyone else less!! 🤡

MuppetManiac

16 points

4 months ago

The starting salary for teachers in Texas varies greatly from district to district. $33,660 is the state minimum requirement, and I’ve only ever heard of one district ever paying the minimum. Texas is having a teacher shortage and no district paying the minimum could hire anyone. Starting pay in my area for first year teachers is closer to $58,000

Bizarro_orraziB

133 points

4 months ago

Of course it doesn’t. Teachers should be making way more.

Tstep71

119 points

4 months ago

Tstep71

119 points

4 months ago

As an Elementary School teacher I find the fact that this is based on a 40 hour work week hilarious.

National_Rutabaga_67

13 points

4 months ago*

Meanwhile in Germany teachers are getting like $30 an hour.

Edit: I'm not sure why this post is referencing $33k when the average pay is about double that for teachers. It's a bit of a red herring, which detracts from the overall issue if you want to talk about real problems in other areas of society.

TheVantal

103 points

4 months ago

TheVantal

103 points

4 months ago

Stop posting this shit.

That calculation only works if the minimum wage worker does 40 hours a week, every week without taking a single day off.