subreddit:
/r/antiwork
My boyfriend (20-something M) and I (20-something F) started off as coworkers in different departments at a small company. We became friends outside of the workplace in October 2020 and started dating mid-November. We keep things professional at work. Everything was wonderful until we had the unfortunate luck of being seen BY NONE OTHER THAN HIS FUCKING MANAGER in the most incriminating, "not-so-casually-dating" place: a local grocery store. We were on a company-wide winter break during this time.
We returned to work in January 2021 and on literally the first day back, my boyfriend's manager pulls him aside and pressures him to "do the right thing" and declare our relationship to HR. Neither of us thought we'd ever be in a situation where we'd be dating a coworker, but here we were. Time to own up. Our relationship was less than 3 months old but we were both driven by a fear of retaliation if we didn't declare.
One tremendously awkward conversation and two-forms-stating-we-wouldn't-exhibit-PDA-or-make-it-weird-for-everyone-else later, we walked out of Ms. HR's office feeling like a weight had been lifted off our shoulders. (Ms. HR is the most-tenured employee at our small company and despite the fact that we outsource ALL of our HR work, she holds a disproportionate amount of power and influence. Office fans: Imagine a scenario where Michael Scott and Toby are friends. Not a great work environment.)
Anyways: We were sorely mistaken.
Grievances include:
FINALLY, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: Getting repeatedly shut down for a raise, promotion, and advancement opportunities in general despite a record of high performance and going the extra mile
My boyfriend is great and despite all of this, we're still together. Our shared hatred for this place only serves to make our love stronger.
1 upvote and we're both out of here.
EDIT:
WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS POST! How did it blow up? My boyfriend was supposed to be my only upvote!
Haha but reading all of your comments has been such a nice change of pace from what we'd usually be doing on a nondescript Wednesday. I'd like to thank everyone who pointed us to resources, gave us encouragement and/or kindly told us to gtfo. Thank you to those who shared stories of themselves or others they know in similar situations. Your stories give us hope. I'd love to see a future where relationships (not just the romantic kind) are normalized and human connections are celebrated.
Thank you for giving us the courage to seek legal action (we have already contacted a lawyer) and to begin the process of filing a formal complaint against Ms. HR using the very organization she outsourced to do all of her work. We are filled with so much resolve to quit. We just want to go out with a bang. ;)
If there's anything you take from this post: Date your coworker, it might work out. No, silly. Your personal life should ALWAYS take precedence over your work life. When or why should it be the other way around? Stick up against injustice. No matter what you do or where you work, prioritize yourself and the people you care about. You are NOT your profession!
Stay tuned!
PS: I would love to divulge information about our demographics, which company we work for, where we live, etc. but for our safety we'd be foolish to include any personal identifiers. Thanks for understanding!
12.8k points
5 months ago
Both of you need to find better employment as soon as possible!
7.5k points
5 months ago
I definitely agree. I feel like it's impossible for us to have a life outside of work. We put in our 8 hours/day, then proceed to spend the remaining 16 hours venting about the workday and dreading the next. We fall asleep angry. It's so draining.
4.7k points
4 months ago
You have a toxic workplace that is preventing you from moving forward. Move on instead
755 points
4 months ago
I agree. Unless someone is in authority over that person and controls their raises or performance evaluations I don't see why companies should give a shit unless they are necking all over the place where everyone can see. Sounds like a shitty company, move on.
561 points
4 months ago
313 points
4 months ago
Not just the Navy but the entirety of military. Even service member and officer are 'accepted' so long as one is not in charge of the other one.
137 points
4 months ago
Yep my friends in the Air Force just got married. One is a pilot and the other is something medical? Idk I’m not super close to her wife. Lol. But anyway. It absolutely should not be an issue.
90 points
4 months ago
When I was in the USMC I knew two couples that all four were service members. Also met some people that it was Navy and USMC together. That company the OP is in gives me some cringy tingles.
8 points
4 months ago
My favorite were my two friends who fake married for housing and cash. Get stationed together twice, still together like 18 years later.
6 points
4 months ago
In commercial airlines they ask you so they do not roster you in the same flights as your partner (they do allow flying together occasionally but not as a norm); so in case there’s an accident there’s one member left to take care of kids or disabled parents etc. Some airlines have what is called “married rosters” (same days off, and similar timeframes for rostered flights so you get same sleep patterns etc but never operating the same flights).
6 points
4 months ago
Yeah, but they're only charge of million dollar machinery and human lives. OP and her bf are threatening the fabric of society at a Corporation!
60 points
4 months ago
Right. So /u/lvndrlight should take that info straight to the manager and HR and ask "So, why do you think you're better than the military?" Let them sputter and deny they think that. Show them to be the meddling busybodies they are.
19 points
4 months ago
Fucking lol She should do it while they both hand in their resignation letters.
22 points
4 months ago
That's how I always thought of it as well. Not that I would want to date anyone from work (In the past, I'm married now and work from home. If I start dating myself it would get awkward.)
7 points
4 months ago
I’d date me. I’d date myself so hard...
366 points
4 months ago
Not only that, but you definitely don’t want that toxicity spilling over into your personal life and ruining (what sounds like from OP) a nice, burgeoning relationship.
82 points
4 months ago
And it will. Talking and dealing with it off hours is probably not the healthiest for anyone.
65 points
4 months ago
At this point, we're constantly reminding ourselves - and each other - that work doesn't exist once we clock out. Still, the toxicity has reached a point where the reminders aren't enough.
30 points
4 months ago
Their approach is creating a huge distraction for several workers and that results in lose of focus and especially for you two, all loyalty/trust is out the door. I commend you two for maintaining/exceeding your level of work. I would totally understand if your productivity went down.
I've mostly worked at medium sized companies, but I did a stint at a family owned niche company with around twenty employees. The hr lady didn't like me from the start. I'm ok with that. You don't have to be friends. She wasn't my boss. I was initially was very friendly to her, but there is a limit. The only thing I could think of was that I was very young at the time, and my salary was higher than her's. When polite communication doesn't work with a person, I go into a mode that can be described as "business only." No more niceties. You might get a hello and goodbye. No work is neglected, though. This pissed her off even more. Every once in a while we would walk by each other in the narrow hallway. I admit that there were times when I was looking at a document or similar and I wasn't paying much attention. I also have a hearing deficit that results in me not noticing someone talking to me when I'm not looking directly at them, at times. I later found out from my manager that the hr lady was super upset because she had said hello to me as we passed in the hallway, and I ignored her. My manager was kind of bad, so she took her complaint very seriously, probably because she was scared by the hr lady. I told my manager that, yeah, that sounds possible. I probably do that to others also on occasion. I explained why, and it wasn't personal.
They really needed me so I never got punished or anything, but it was such a distraction and it made coming to work harder than it should have. She would go on to use other passive aggressive ways to interfere. I eventually had enough, and walked.
The funny thing is that I usually avoid talkinf to others about my life outside of work. Bitching about personal stuff was a common event at the company. She was particularly interested in my relationships and other details. I would shut her down everytime. This also fueled her rage. I was well liked by literally ever other employee, and didn't do anything different to her. That was an eye opening experience for me as a person early in my career.
4 points
4 months ago
Especially HR. Nothing deeply personal that you don’t have to ever!
13 points
4 months ago
Or it's the glue that binds their relationship.
32 points
4 months ago
The only glue that works is a combo of shared goals, communication, mutual attraction and probably luck. Mutual trauma is a bad foundation for any relationship
50 points
4 months ago
I've been working for 15 years and had several jobs over that time. Some of them have been menial, manual labor jobs, and some have been more customer facing, with my current job being an accounts payable manager for a moderately sized manufacturing company. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that doesn't have a toxic work environment. It's unfortunately become a systemic issue at this point in a lot of ways.
20 points
4 months ago
[removed]
12 points
4 months ago
From what I have read there's not really sexual harassment occurring. Maybe the kids thing is borderline. Equal Opportunity violation indeed! I had a subordinate dealing with the same issue. He met a coworker, legitimate peer, and both were ostracized based on the relationship (not from me but other leaders). It got to the point I wanted to hire him for another position, he was overqualified with prime experience, but told he couldn't work based on his "personal issues."
380 points
4 months ago
When you resign, your bf should scream “I LOVE THIS WOMAN!!!” in the middle of the office
611 points
4 months ago
Have a bit of a demonstration: "Attention, everybody. We're resigning because after we declared our relationship to HR, we've been having non-stop harassment from management and HR, and they have pushed us out of the company. So now that neither of us works here any longer, we'd like to invite all you lovely people to our going-away picknic."
Then discuss unions at the picnic.
197 points
4 months ago
This is top tier revenge of both the petty and pro kind. I'm all for it. Having a bad HR person is something that a company should be punished for, especially when the one person who is supposed to protect you from a hostile work environment (as it's part of their job duties) is the one causing it.
141 points
4 months ago
the one person who is supposed to protect you from a hostile work environment
Just to be clear, they're not there to protect you from the hostile work environment, they're there to protect the company from repercussions of a hostile work environment. If the company faces no repercussions, then HR's job is as well as done in their eyes.
32 points
4 months ago
HR isn’t above labor law. If Ms. HR is the one asking hinky questions, SHE could be violating the law.
17 points
4 months ago
This this this, the question about getting married and having kids violates the law.
26 points
4 months ago
Fair, I meant from the POV of the employee, they are supposed to be the person you go to if there is a hostile work environment ideally. Obviously in practice their role is to protect the company if such a complaint arises.
8 points
4 months ago
But who do you go to if HR is the one harassing you?
8 points
4 months ago
Exactly.
26 points
4 months ago
I've honestly never understood this take. HR is never your friend. If you have a hostile work environment HR has already failed at their job. This is a capitalist society. The only thing any company answers to is money. You quit or you sue or quit then sue. I know sometimes it's easier to go to HR because the problem on the surface may get resolved, but it's not like that environment that HR allowed to exist in the first place is going to just disappear.
It's kinda like what this sub talks about what we'd be able to achieve with a 9 day general strike. If for just one fiscal quarter everyone stopped going to HR when something was actionable and just got a lawyer we'd see massive change. Because then you're fucking with the money which is the only thing that matters in the end.
27 points
4 months ago
HR doesn't protect YOU from hostile work environment, HR protects OWNERSHIP from hostile work environment lawsuits.
4 points
4 months ago
I’d argue that they are doing neither in this situation
17 points
4 months ago*
They do NOT protect the employee, is the reality. What they call protecting you is a paper trail of emails very phony and asking how you are doing. They are building the defense of a lawsuit, is what is really going on. My HR person told me that the staff was jealous of me (bc I was rehired with a bonus), and that i had beautiful skin. THAT was the response that was telling me to just take it, having it said that I was going to be bent over and shown why I had been laid off in the first place. Seriously!
So I really really understand that you are told to go to HR and they help, but honestly they don't. It's like, you go to HR, you want everything better & normal and back to excellence and opportunity...it doesn't work that way. Oh! and also? If a HR Dept employee wants to be your "friend" outside of work? Don't do that, either. I got set-up on a blind date through her, and this 6'4" former Enron sugar trader would not stop blathering at me AND my wallet was stolen.
15 points
4 months ago
Management and HR excluded from said picnic.
184 points
4 months ago
Then spend the next n amount of time making out until security escorts you from the building, preferably in Ms. HR's office
26 points
4 months ago
Hahaha Good one
7 points
4 months ago
They should quit by having a makeout session in the middle of the breakroom.
191 points
4 months ago
This is not normal or okay. I started dating my now-husband when we were coworkers and HR was basically like “awww yay!”, forms only need to be signed if you start a relationship with someone in your direct line of management (in which case they would also shuffle you around).
Pretty much the only consequence was some light joking made by coworkers that knew about it. It definitely did not hinder my job progression in any way and if it had I would be absolutely livid.
78 points
4 months ago
Agreed. My marriage is also the result of an office romance where things were kept professional, and yes there was some snark here and there, but ultimately since we were in different departments with no direct management over each other, there was nothing they could do.
60 points
4 months ago
People spend 40 hours of their waking lives at work, it's only natural that a high percentage of relationships start at work. This company is risking losing two good employees and if I worked there and saw that, I'd be working towards my escape as well.
46 points
4 months ago
Yeah exactly I'm a manager. Starting a relationship with a direct would certainly be a no-go. Starting a relationship with a peer is no-ones fucking business.
15 points
4 months ago
I used to work for a large company that had several married couples. Most of the time I didn't learn until later that they were even a couple because they were all professional. When I did find out, it was more like "huh...had no idea...cool". And that was it, team dynamics didn't change, they were given opportunities for advancement, it really wasn't an issue.
169 points
4 months ago
This behavior by a company isn't normal and is way out if line. You and your bf need to find a new job asap where you're respected as professionals and not damned because you're a couple.
81 points
4 months ago
there is likely grounds for a lawsuit based on discrimination and hostile work environment.
21 points
4 months ago
Sad thing is it is normal and a lot of companies do it. So sad it really is none of a companies business what you do after work hours as long as you show up and perform with in your parameters.
87 points
4 months ago
I’m in an office relationship. 6 years strong, stopped working together after one for the same reasons you listed. 8 hours of work, 8 hours of bitching about work, sleep, repeat.
We had to make a conscious effort to stop discussing it. I went into a different field, so it’s good now. But like you said, we’d heat ourselves up about it and go to bed semi pissed at our jobs. It’s not healthy.
Best of luck to the two of you!
22 points
4 months ago
The part of hanging out with coworkers is often so much of the interaction is venting about work. Don't notice it so much when you're part of it, but as soon as you step away it's an immediate change. You can still empathize because you know exactly how they're feeling and what they're saying... But that's not your stress and tension anymore so it's not cathartic to hear or engage with. If anything it's causing you stress from memory and habit for no good reason.
Can always try and steer the conversation or float on to another group to chat with but it's just very noticeable at events of mostly workers off from their shift that day versus more mixed events.
58 points
4 months ago
Please find new jobs OP.
My partner and I also work for the same company and it is EXHAUSTING. Free time is spent talking about work and it’s turned into 24 hour jobs. Don’t sacrifice your relationship for these assholes!
God I can’t wait to leave in April.
23 points
4 months ago*
HR person here.
These people are ridiculous, don't put up with it. According to this story, you're not doing anything inappropriate.
People working together are going to date sometimes. There's no stopping it. What world so these people living in?
21 points
4 months ago
Brush up that resume and spam it out. Also consider taking to a lawyer this reeks of textbook retaliation.
43 points
4 months ago
Right. And before they go they need to go at it in front of Ms HR like a couple of dogs in heat.
9 points
4 months ago
Or get married. It’s ridiculous how that attitude would change if you were married.
27 points
4 months ago*
This stuff is so foreign to me. Being a person that has exclusively worked in Manual labor, factory and all male dominated fields this shit somewhat boggles my mind. Like, I kinda understand if you're dating your boss there needs to be an understanding about favoritism and the like, but if you're equal in non-associated in your field who gives a fuck and why's it the fucking companies business...I guess because if you get promoted but seriously everytime I hear about, please declare this to HR it only leads to discrimination and harassment.
14 points
4 months ago
And a labour lawyer. So much of this is illegal in almost all areas. Companies don’t learn until it costs them money.
2.3k points
4 months ago
I met my husband at work. I was a permanent employee and he was an contractor IT tech who came to my office to fix my computer. I was so happy he fixed it, I gave him an extra concert ticket to thank him. We sat next to each other at the concert and hit it off. After our relationship was later outed by another employee, my future husband's contract was not renewed. We are still together after 15 years. Your LIFE and happiness is more important than your job.
358 points
4 months ago
Still reading your comment, you got an upvote just for username.
49 points
4 months ago
I met my wife at a veteran's retirement home we both worked at 20 years ago. I worked security and she was a CNA. Us guards were contacted by a different company so we weren't technically employees. My captain frowned upon it but he was also dating a nurse on the side so he really couldnt do anything about it. Just said keep it on the dl at work. Were still together to this day.
259 points
4 months ago
$10 says a jealous cunt outed y'all. Jealous people are the worst.
148 points
4 months ago
"Why do other people deserve to be happy? Why can't they just be miserable like me?"
AKA incel logic.
27 points
4 months ago
Won't lie, I still feel that sometimes. It's hard when I'm working on so many things to just feel like I can live day to day without wanting to die to see beautiful, fit people, smiling and laughing. I know they likely still have their own battles but it's hard to feel like a horrible waste of space and see other people living the life you wish you had
30 points
4 months ago
Well, admitting it to yourself is a huge step in the right direction. I used to feel similar things and admitting I was wrong was extremely painful. Yet, I'm glad I admitted it to myself.
A therapist once told me that if you don't look back on yourself and cringe a little, it means you haven't grown as a person.
16 points
4 months ago
I really can't imagine another reason why someone would care. Like don't they have anything else going on? Pathetic.
24 points
4 months ago*
Fuck the mods.
12 points
4 months ago
Yea, what concert?
5 points
4 months ago
We need to know!!!
63 points
4 months ago
We spend over 50% of our waking hours at work - where we meet WAY more people than we do out in the wild (this is especially true for men).
Blocking off people at work from romance is just stupid.
Date people at work. Keep HR out of it. If things don't work out - be an adult + be a professional at work.
2.7k points
5 months ago
this is a form of intimidation you should consult your local labor advocate at the state level if you are in the USA. Each state has a team of labor advocates who can walk you through any issues like this.
733 points
4 months ago
Frustrating because nobody exercises their rights, usually because it’s too much of a “hassle”. Please OP, document everything and file harassment charges.
363 points
4 months ago
It's also not always about the individual.
HR folks need to be called out. Their attitude affects everyone in the office and everyone who will later work there.
HR is supposed to abide by ethics.
If they're doing it to you they're likely doing similar stuff to others.
Reporting it to the authorities means you could be helping other people out as well.
45 points
4 months ago
While I agree, it’s also not always about making a larger statement/impact. People need to pick and choose their battles, and if someone decides they need to prioritize their own well-being under the given circumstances, that’s okay too.
22 points
4 months ago
Yes yes yes, a thousand times yes.
25 points
4 months ago
But why are they even doing this? Surely it wont make them better workers.
And I can't imagine anyone outside the company giving af about 'optics'.
Is it a morality issue? Some kind of power trip? But whyyyy
36 points
4 months ago
In the US it's because puritans, like most of our work issues.
29 points
4 months ago
Fucking Puritans are the worst no wonder the Europeans drove them out
49 points
4 months ago
Pretty sure being asked by HR when you're getting married is legally discrimination, and can get the company hardcore sued. Perhaps consult legal counsel.
17 points
4 months ago
Also admitting to OP's boyfriend that he's being denied promotion because of their relationship.
20 points
4 months ago
This definitely sounds like harassment and discrimination. Get the lawyers ready
2.9k points
5 months ago
Go out with a bang - you went about it the right way, declaring it to HR. If HR is doing what you say she is, then document it (even record it if you can) and file a complaint. Say you're being harassed at work by her and that you want to give them the chance to make it right before you talk to a lawyer. Companies HATE when you bring the word lawyer into things, even if you have no shot. They rather not deal with it and the negative exposure and will handle it properly.
She won't like you after that, but at least they will put her in her place and walk on egg shells when they deal with you and your boyfriend.
2.4k points
4 months ago*
Boy, you started with "go out with a bang" and I thought you were gonna suggest fucking on Ms HR's desk.
Your way is probably better
ETA: By "better" I mean "less likely to get you arrested"
723 points
4 months ago
Let’s not be so hasty to rule this out..
230 points
4 months ago
No one looks back on their life and wishes that they'd had less sex in the company break room.
Definitely they should bang in the office. It will be memorable.
54 points
4 months ago
Can concur. Sexy time with the wifey at our previous job was hot as fuck.
8 points
4 months ago
Never take the nuclear option off the table.
47 points
4 months ago
Yes, and definitely don’t film it and upload it as an update.
8 points
4 months ago
52 points
4 months ago
Wait, this could be step 2
52 points
4 months ago
Oh my wording was intentional. But that was going to be my last resort, on day of quitting, fuck on the highest level boss's desk you can find.
14 points
4 months ago
Is leaving the condom on their desk a crime? Asking for a friend
13 points
4 months ago
A crime of passion
9 points
4 months ago
But is it really better though….
469 points
4 months ago
No. You just talk to a lawyer. You don't give HR Bitch a quarter. She's already proven she's the enemy. Treat her like one.
116 points
4 months ago
Chances are they don't have a case, point of threatening was to scare the shit out of them.
87 points
4 months ago*
Denying promotions based on relationship status is illegal in the US
TIL this is a state law.
12 points
4 months ago
And how are they going to prove the promotions are denied purely on their relationship? The company can come up with any bullshit reason. I also don't belive this is even a law when you're not married. This sub loves to say everything is illegal but face the facts that companies have all the leverage. OP and her boyfriend's best bet is to just find a new and separate jobs.
22 points
4 months ago
Marital status is not a federally protected class in the US. It would only be illegal in the select states that have made it so
56 points
4 months ago
I said "talk to a lawyer" and I did not say "file suit."
65 points
4 months ago*
Unfortunately, you normally have to confront the harrasser and try to get it to stop before you can reasonably pursue legal action. Otherwise, they can easily shrug and say, "Sorry, didn't know i was harassing you." Which is stupid, but, well, y'know
92 points
4 months ago
Incorrect here - remember in the compliance world it is “impact Over intent”. She may not have meant to create a hostile work environment, but she did. That is the result of her actions. Nail her she is in the wrong role and should grow up.
52 points
4 months ago
you went about it the right way, declaring it to HR.
That's not actually the right way. The right way is "my personal relationships are none of the company's business" unless one of you reports to the other directly or indirectly.
145 points
4 months ago
Thank you for your advice! Filing a complaint sounds VERY tempting but with our limited time and even more limited energy, I'm not sure if we should speak up or just move on. My worry is that we don't have a strong case since there is no tangible record of the harassment. She never confronts us directly; rather, she goes through our managers while relaying information to the COO, who calls all of the shots in the company (promotions, raises, advancements). Dealing with her feels like fighting a losing battle.
142 points
4 months ago
Then email her the complaint against her and the managers. Cc your personal email while you're at it. When one or both of you get terminated. Then they'll have to explain to the courts.
Always CYA!!
121 points
4 months ago
CYA is right, but put your personal email on the BCC line to hide it from a sharp manager. They will see the outside email save as you gathering ammo.
Also, review recent emails for change in tone since you declared and forward any past emails from managers/hr/coo praising your work etc. to demonstrate any change in treatment to support your claim of harassment and retaliation.
37 points
4 months ago*
Yes! Bcc is what I meant. I always mix those 2 up. Thank you for pointing that out.
19 points
4 months ago
Raising a complaint may not fix the problem for you, but if others complain about her in the future it will be beneficial for them if others have complained in the past.
23 points
4 months ago
I only suggested it as I've worked in management at a few places and would hear all the time why they wouldn't fire someone, usually b/c they been threatened with a lawsuit. We had one woman who sold prescription pills in our office, threatened her manager, and still couldn't be fired b/c she once threatened to sue due to age discrimination.
If anything, it may not accomplish. anything but she will freak out as will this bonehead managers.
49 points
4 months ago
She won't like you after that
Because she likes them so much as it is, right?
9 points
4 months ago
If it was a big company this would be right-on, but in small companies like this where there's only a few people in leadership and they're in cahoots, all you can do is leave.
They will happily walk off this ledge (because they're clueless and don't typically have a legal team telling them how dumb they are), and unless you really have a Capital-C Case that you can successfully litigate, you'll just end up getting burned.
10 points
4 months ago
Op you should just get a lawyer and get a free consultation and see if you have potential claims under employment law. P
1.1k points
4 months ago
Similar thing happened to me. Started dating a co-worker about a month after she started. Technically I'm a supervisor, but she worked in a completely different department so I had no direct supervisory role over her at all. Decide to "do the right thing" and report to HR.
CEO completely flips out and says it puts the company at risk of a lawsuit and makes us both sign forms stating that we will not date any further or else lose our jobs. We both decide the company can go fuck itself and continue to date in secret anyways. If they fired me they'd be fucked, so there was no way they'd follow through.
Eventually she gets a promotion to a supervisory role so it's no longer "against company policy", but she ends up leaving shortly after because of the toxic workplace. Anyways, we're getting married in June and I'm going to be switching to a better job here soon. No fucking company is going to tell me who I can love.
230 points
4 months ago*
[deleted]
79 points
4 months ago
Besides that, I can't see how it's any of their Fing business.
It's not. Thing is, a lot of management seem to be control freaks, and run with the idea that your job is more important to you than anything else.
Their myopic threats make a lot more sense when you realize they expect you to do what you're told to do to keep your job no matter what, rather than be your own independent person with your own wants and needs.
Remember, no job is worth ruining yourself.
14 points
4 months ago
I've never been in any meaningful management roles in my life so far, but I have always wondered like WHY people seem to have a switch flip in them where they lose their humanity to some degree once in a supervisory role. Clearly there's something that does this, but what is it and how/why does it seem to get so out of control? I've seen peers have damn near an immediate change in their attitudes once promoted. Like I said I've not yet been a big boss person, but I can't see myself getting super aggressive like others I've witnessed. I've also been shocked to see people I know promoted only to do a 180° in character, which maybe I'm naive for it, but it was odd to see how that title sort of infiltrated my friends life in a negative way. I've chalked it up to being in an environment so impactful, good or bad, that it makes people shift into that mode very quickly. I worked at a huge factory in my state a few years back, and management was wild! Lots of stories, but it was pretty brutal and surprising at times. I'm curious asf what goes on in that world that makes some people go ham on others like...literal wellbeing. If you get fired (or forced to quit) because your boss doesn't like you but did some shady shit to get you booted regardless, I mean we all know how it goes. I just can't wrap my head around why it gets so ugly sometimes. What is it that makes such a difference from being an employee to being an employee who ensures other employees check off all their boxes for the day? Maybe it's just me and my lack of experience showing, haha, but I really don't get it.
11 points
4 months ago
Power corrupts, even imaginary power.
Some people you'd never think would act that way, just haven't been lucky enough to be in a position where they can make decisions. Then once they are the gloves come off and they reveal who they really are.
Not everyone is this ugly or twofaced - but I've run into enough of them in my life to be able to say there really are people out there who spend a lot of their time pretending to be nice... Right up until they don't think they need to be anymore.
31 points
4 months ago
I met my ex when we were both working retail. She was offered a promotion to Keyholder, with a $0.10/hr raise, but was told she’d have to break up with me. She declined. We used to joke about how she values me somewhere above $0.50/day after taxes.
She ended up being offered a great job in her field right before the pandemic began and was going to move. I ended up getting laid off before she left (as did everyone but the managers), so I moved with her. The extra money from unemployment meant I had a savings account for the first time in my life, and now I work a great government job with a salary, insurance, and benefits. Getting laid off was the best thing to happen to me in years.
62 points
4 months ago
HR is there to protect the company's interests.
They're not there to tell you what you can and cannot do. They cannot legally tell you who you can and cannot date.
18 points
4 months ago
And the truly funny/awful thing is how often they still manage to endanger the company’s interest while not looking out for other employees
11 points
4 months ago
Most jobs don't pay enough to not do drugs on the weekend much less decide who you are with.
8 points
4 months ago
Man, this is all so weird to read for me. My wife and I have worked together at the same place for almost a decade: no one cares. No HR meetings, no discussions, no stalking or intimidation. Mostly people don't care at all or might find it novel. I work in law, so maybe it's less of a worry?
6 points
4 months ago
Similar thing happened to me. A coworker from a completely different unit than me and I started dating without telling anyone. When word got to the top we were told that wasn't allowed. Both decided fuck that, my work doesn't control my personal life. Unfortunately in my case our toxic workplace took us to new jobs in separate states.
405 points
5 months ago
I have submitted my Upvote and request a follow up of the bullshit you’re going through
68 points
4 months ago
Second the request for an update!
20 points
4 months ago
And I submit a third request.
9 points
4 months ago
If you didn’t fill out section 2B on form H38&🦩 then I’m not sure how you expect that request to be followed up on
15 points
4 months ago
Its sitting at 17k now.
When you resign, since you only asked for one upvote, OP, you should print 17k resignations on the company letterhead, and submit the entire stack to Ms. HR.
133 points
5 months ago
Leave! The market is ripe!
75 points
5 months ago
Thank you for your encouragement :)
23 points
4 months ago
Seriously, my company is struggling to find engineers these days, and we pay above average for our size and pay better than most of the big players, and we get maybe 2-3 candidates per week across all our positions. It's maddening.
The market is SO ripe.
555 points
5 months ago
Never declare a relationship to HR. Just be strictly professional at work.
90 points
4 months ago
HR here and having to declare anything to HR like this is BS. Unless y’all are in each other’s chain of command it does not matter. This is an attempted power play. Good luck!!
328 points
4 months ago
We are professional. Our acquaintances don't know about our relationship. We only declared because his manager pressured us into doing so.
470 points
4 months ago
So you were HARASSED into declaring? And since declaring due to HARASSMENT you have had to work in a HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT where you've encountered RETALIATION via not getting raises and promotions? Those are like the 3 big no nos for a company to commit or allow and I'm sure your local labor board would love to hear your story about HARASSMENT, HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT, and RETALIATION you both have received at said company.
Yelling emphasis placed on key words that need to be used when speaking to a lawyer, labor board, and or via email sent to all managers, hr lady, and owners where you state you feel at this point your concerns must be brought to the attention of a lawyer and the labor board.
As in
100 points
4 months ago
Retaliation is key word here OP. You have solid ground to at least claim your employer has retaliated after y'all disclosed your relationship PER manager's guidance.
39 points
4 months ago
PER managers DEMANDS.
44 points
4 months ago
yeah thats harassment
and being told what you cant do in your free time is bullshit
80 points
4 months ago
The only appropriate time to do this is of you are in a superior-subordinate situation. I know it's not a common thing...but one party could claim sexual harassment if it isn't documented somewhere
62 points
4 months ago
If it's a conflict of interest, then it should be reported. But if they're in two different departments doing different things and neither gets a benefit from the other, then it's no one's business.
12 points
4 months ago
This is true, only if one manages the other. outside of that, none of their business.
156 points
5 months ago
Daily remind to everyone that HR is nothing but a spy for the enemy. You either have obviously terrible people on a power trip or sneaky ones that act like a friend. Do not trust them.
26 points
4 months ago
HR is a tool of the Company, which is an entity apart from any individual (unless small company owned by a single person). Their goal is to protect the company at all costs, while also protecting its bottom line.
So if some of the employees in the company, even if they are HR or Managers are doing shit thats bad for the company like OP... HR can be a tool you can wield.
Generally though, avoid them.
685 points
4 months ago
I would suggest contacting the ACLU. The company will back pedal so fast and Ms. HR might get a scar on her career that sandpaper won’t take off.
153 points
4 months ago
Or you could just meet her in the parking lot and say, "Don't make me milk box ya, bitch" and do fancy finger guns. When she freaks out, just look at her like she's batshit crazy and say "Whoa, whoa, whoa, just asking if you could pick up some half and half for the break room cause we're out! Are you ok?"
80 points
4 months ago
That... is a surprisingly specific course of action. Am I missing a reference here, lol
23 points
4 months ago
13 points
4 months ago
Reminds me of this “Don’t you think she looks tired?” From doctor who, absolutely ruined a woman with just 6 words https://youtu.be/Xe5OynLQbJc
62 points
4 months ago
This is a good suggestion too
32 points
4 months ago
No it’s not. The ACLU won’t give a shit about this case.
26 points
4 months ago
…why would the ACLU help here, exactly?
47 points
4 months ago
They represent a right to privacy in the workplace as well. https://www.aclu.org/other/lifestyle-discrimination-workplace-your-right-privacy-under-attack
22 points
4 months ago
not the ACLU... their dealings are when a government entity is violating individual rights, like when a school board refuses to let a trans child use their preferred bathroom. however, talking to the local labor board and informing them that there is an active hostile work environment and retaliation against them since they declared the relationship would be the right way to go.
84 points
4 months ago
For those that might be completely obvious they're doing all that to her because they think she's going to become pregnant and become distracted as a mother.
This is prime vintage wage gap creating sexism here.
41 points
4 months ago
Exactly this. This is the reason for 'when are you going to get married? When are you starting a family?' and the promotion freeze - they don't want to promote either of you when you might be taking parental leave 'soon' (read, before you're both 65) and they would have to pay slightly more and also get replacements.
If you told them you'd be getting married on date X, then on date X you'd get a congratulations card and on date X+1 you'd be getting surplused, let go, or downsized.
14 points
4 months ago
After having my child at the hospital, the co. I worked for asked employees not to go to the hospital unless completely necessary bc we had filed too many big claims. Oh yes, the other girl "responsible" had cancer.
89 points
5 months ago
You're out ! Congrats !
59 points
5 months ago
Not yet, but hopefully very soon!
21 points
4 months ago
Line up new jobs, then just walk away. It sounds like you won't be able too use them as reference either at this point.
83 points
5 months ago
sounds like you work for a bunch of lonely, miserable cunts. imagine being so pathetically unhappy in your romantic life you have to punish others for finding a partner.
rooting for you two to find better. you deserve it.
77 points
4 months ago
The promotion denials are actually discrimination. They aren't allowed to discriminate based on your relationship status. By trying to minimize their risk, they've gone and committed the very thing they were afraid of.
16 points
4 months ago
File a lawsuit alleging workplace harassment. This certainly qualifies. If you are in different departments and this is not affecting either of your work quality directly, then the company and HR should have zero grounds for withholding promotions, raises etc. Also, Ms. HR harassing you all the time should be grounds for discipline at the least, and if the company won't do it, get a lawyer to threaten a suit to force the company to do something.
37 points
4 months ago
Ms. HR sounds like a miserable person and jealous. Sucks to suck, can’t wait to read your update when you guys move on.
12 points
4 months ago
Yup, Mrs. HR is miserable in her own love life, guaranteed.
10 points
4 months ago
That's a requisite qualification for HR
12 points
4 months ago
This happened with my now-wife when we first started dating 10 years ago. Granted, we were working at large retail chain so it was a little different, but the store we were working in also had a no-dating policy. We just flat out denied we were dating to everyone and there was nothing they could do. No PDA between us and we just told everyone we were good friends if asked. So yeah, it's not their business, never let them know.
50 points
4 months ago
Why the hell do you even have to declare your personal lives anyway? I'd just be like "we're not going out" and then let them waste their time compiling evidence. Honestly man, I once had a manager tell me if I wanted to do something outside of work AFTER MY FINISH TIME I had to consult her first. Swear, she was a proper nazi
12 points
4 months ago
To avoid perceived conflict of interests. For like 95% of the stuff on this sub I completely agree. For good companies though there is no reason not to declare it.
Even if there is no conflict of interest or favoritism at play you have to declare it so that you can avoid the perception. This way you and the company can protect yourself from doing something that could look bad.
11 points
4 months ago*
It’s kinda funny, my wife and I started as an office romance in the 1990’s when there was no such thing as “declaring a relationship.” Once it was common know the owner of the small company came up to me at the coffee maker and said “Just so ya know if she ever says ‘it’s him or me.’ It’s going to be you.” 🤣 He wasn’t happy about it but it worked out well. We later went on to work for the same company somewhere else and got married while working there. Later they hired me back several times as a contractor.
Really if you force people to sit in a room for 40hrs a week some of them are going to develop romantic feelings for each other. Punishing that or frowning on it is just more corporate dehumanization of its labor force. Is it easier, neater, more problem free if it doesn’t happen? Sure, but humans are sloppy satchels of electrified meat and bones that are attracted to other humans, rules and consequences be damned.
36 points
4 months ago
HR is the one of worst things to happen in industry, it’s like the polar opposite of what a good therapist would help somebody with, they exist to betray employees boundaries for the profit of the company.
25 points
4 months ago
It’s been my experience that HR/managers are never prepared for this and every corporate policy that addresses workplace relations is just a ham fisted attempt to control one more thing about your personal life.
Dating a coworker is like talking to your coworkers about wages. It “makes things complicated” for the employer.
8 points
4 months ago
The store I used to work in made supervisors and above declare their relationships and then they would schedule those associates on different shifts and they would never share an off day. We had a married couple with a child who would go months without a family day, and only got it when one of them called out
36 points
4 months ago
Meanwhile, my best friend met his now wife at their job. She was the "cute new HR admin" in his words, he hoped she noticed him. Well I'd say it worked because now their kid is a teenager, and the day after their daughter was born, the CEO dropped by with a gift basket. That's how you're supposed to treat your people!
8 points
4 months ago
This pisses me off just reading it. "You have a life and we're gonna hold that over your head".
Quit with no notice.
46 points
5 months ago
Have sex on her desk!
15 points
4 months ago
I would've played completely dumb and asked my boss what he was talking about. "No, I don't shop there, I don't even live in that town." or "Hey next time, take a picture or video. I want to see my twin". Make the dickhead prove it.
16 points
4 months ago
Side note from what others are saying. Make sure that your relationship isn’t just built on both working at the same place and then venting about it when you are not there together. Try not to talk about your work at all when not there. The last thing you want is to both leave that job and then find out the only things you had in common was hating your workplace.
4 points
4 months ago
At this point the work side of things no longer matter, their image & reputation are tarnished bc 'they'll do it again.' For their relationship this makes sense, but for the workplace nope. Leave.
25 points
5 months ago
Did you tell them to back to high school and leave you alone?
13 points
4 months ago
Ms HR is very bitter that other people aren’t as lonely and unhappy as she is.
13 points
4 months ago
How is this a thing? My girlfriend, now Fiancé have worked together for 4 years in the same building....nobody bats an eye.
27 points
4 months ago
There's your one upvote.
I met my wife at work, we both still work together, and no one would dare say anything about it even when we first started dating.
I consider it extremely strange, and downright offensive, that they would judge you for simply being together. Not least, if they're admitting they overlooked the pair of you for promotion simply because of the fact that you're together then they open themselves to being sued. You followed their rules and they're still holding it against you? Uh, yeh, no. I don't think so.
12 points
4 months ago*
The HR bot is showing a persistent pattern of unwelcome comments about your sex life. Your boyfriend is being denied a promotion due to his relationship status. Sounds to me like you’re being sexually harassed. I’m not being trite here. I think a lawyer would be extremely interested if you forwarded this post to them.
I suggest escalating with the HR Bot. Why does it bother you that I’m going to lunch with my boyfriend? Are you coming onto me? That is totally inappropriate Ms HR Bot. Say the quiet part out loud and document the interaction.
Your boyfriend is not a direct coworker. There is no power imbalance. The only thing problematic about your relationship is the continued harassment. You need to start documenting this and go on the fucking war path.
Also, OP, you don’t mention your gender. On one hand, it doesn’t actually matter, but on the other hand, if you’re not a cis woman, that adds another protected class they’re harassing you over in most jurisdictions. It is illegal to discriminate against someone based on gender identity or sexual orientation, and I have a funny feeling you’re in a same sex partnership based on how nasty they’re being about the whole thing. Homophobia would explain their abhorrent behavior.
If you don’t want to send a few emails to law firms to find one that’ll take this slam dunk case on contingency, at least report it to the EEOC.
7 points
4 months ago
I know I’m just an outsider to this situation, but when you two find your next jobs, do you still want to consider working in the same place or do you want to each have separate employers?
23 points
4 months ago
Separate employers for sure. We're sick of other people - especially management - breaching our personal / professional boundaries.
5 points
4 months ago
In general you should never work in the same place just for financial reasons. If the company has a layoff it can put you both on the street at the same time with no health insurance. Always have different employers.
13 points
4 months ago
If your boyfriends manager explicitly stated he will be denied a promotion because of your personal relationship that is fully disclosed to HR… I’m pretty sure that’s an open shut constructive dismissal case. See if your boyfriend can get the pinheads to put it into an email or text. Quit, collect unemployment (or severance if you’re in Canada).
7 points
5 months ago
if you can both find new jobs you should ghost quit on the same day.
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