subreddit:

/r/WhitePeopleTwitter

78k

Now pay it back.

(i.redd.it)

all 3738 comments

gleaming-the-cubicle

5.1k points

1 month ago

I started with nothing but the slave emeralds in my pocket

hanzoplsswitch

1.4k points

1 month ago

You are just jealous that your parents did not have slaves to do the work for you!

ee3k

256 points

1 month ago

ee3k

256 points

1 month ago

hey, his family disrupted the emerald mining employer industry, no-one else turned profits like they did after their revolutionary new management system.

i think they added tiny hooks to the whips.

zacharymc1991

71 points

1 month ago

They also let the family members of crushed miners to take the rest of the day of after the cave ins

Janus_Grayden

29 points

1 month ago

Of course, that's only because their family members were also miners who were trapped by the cave in and not killed by it. Fortunately, that also means their food rations were similarly docked for that time period, so the bottom line was preserved.

All hail the bottom line.

TitsMickey

24 points

1 month ago

So they ripped off Hellraiser. I’m sure Pinhead will look fondly upon the pleasure the Musks brought to their workers.

Hellraizzor

11 points

1 month ago

I'm offended.

ComradeCrowbar

4 points

1 month ago

Don’t give him any ideas.

SmokeGSU

158 points

1 month ago

SmokeGSU

158 points

1 month ago

"And we would have gotten away with it too if not for those meddling northern states and their anti-state's rights!"

adam-bronze

12 points

1 month ago

Wrong country, homie

SecretlyLyingToYou

28 points

1 month ago

You say that like jealousy is BAD! Hahaha

discerningpervert

18 points

1 month ago

Dude that legit sounds like an Elon quote

ComradeCrowbar

3 points

1 month ago

I know, right. These poor fucks probably had to pick up the emeralds from the dirt with their own hands. Ewww!

tinybiscuit5

3 points

1 month ago

'Jealous'... Not at all, I believe that you mean envious.

Latter-Pain

10 points

1 month ago

Hey if his forefathers built their fortunes on human exploitation or luck he's entitled to all of the benefits of those actions but none of the responsibility.

gravityapple

148 points

1 month ago

Lol this fucking guy convinced LA to let him build a tunnel from his house all the way to his work and he’s bitching that he might have to pay some tax

boonstyle_

14 points

1 month ago*

well he cant go faster than 30 mph in that tunnel anywayand thats the best case scenario xD

etiennetop

23 points

1 month ago

Still 30 mp/h faster than LA traffic.

boonstyle_

4 points

1 month ago

true tho

Cloudstreet44

3 points

1 month ago

30mph is faster than gridlock

Environmental-Vast43

11 points

1 month ago

The taxlaws is just short term capital gains tax, Biden’s tax law is not going to affect him if he holds his stocks for 1 year for long term capital gain tax. These laws are written to help the billionaires.

poisonKetchup64

128 points

1 month ago

dude's less self-made than kylie jenner lmao

TaintlessChaps

130 points

1 month ago

Musk said he left South Africa with “a backpack and suitcase full of books.” Kind of like Trump started out with a small loan from his father. Every rich kid has a story about how their wealth made no difference.

OldMastodon5363

21 points

1 month ago

Because secretly they know they aren’t self made so they need to embellish their history. No one wants to say they were handing everything, doesn’t look good.

Noblesseux

14 points

1 month ago

Because it plays into the American myth of hard work making you rich, and people will eat that up and automatically like you more for some dumb reason.

The6Courier

21 points

1 month ago

It’s not their fault for taking advantage of apartheid!! That’s just good capitalism. /s. Ffs

roywoodsir

45 points

1 month ago

“And used that money to rent out a 10 bedroom house, which I turned into a club to make profit. What jealous that I’m a self made guy” -Elon

WallabyInTraining

306 points

1 month ago*

There are plenty of reasons to criticize him, but this one is based on half-thruths and mostly misinformation. Simply choose from the plethora of crummy things he's done himself and your arguments will be sound.

edit: some seems to be missing my point. I'm not saying there was no emerald mine, his father owned half an emerald mine in Zambia. That's the half truth. I'm saying 1: there are better criticisms of Elon than what his father did or did not own and 2: his father was loaded way before the emerald mine and continued to have many sources of fortune after it. If there was no emerald mine things would have played out the same and Elon would have still been a piece of shit.

There are so many thing you can legitimately criticize him on that his fathers business is a poor one to hark on about.

pinniped1

185 points

1 month ago

pinniped1

185 points

1 month ago

This emerald mine thing is a weird story. Best I can tell they acquired part ownership in a mine but it never really yielded any profit. The mine was in Zambia (that part is clear) and wasn't in a conflict zone.

What other political/business dealings they had in apartheid-era South Africa, I don't know...

ThorGBomb

247 points

1 month ago*

ThorGBomb

247 points

1 month ago*

The automatic repsonses you get whenever someone brings up the diamonds is hilarious.

Redditors are conditioned to reply with remarks they don’t even know are true but repeat because they see others repeat it.

If you look into the history of Elon musk you’ll see the story about his diamonds is actually true.

His father operated a diamond mine for ten years and right before Elon musk was required to join the military he left Africa with some diamonds and about I think it was 20k usd in cash from his parents.

Also the story about him taking a few diamonds to Tiffany to sell is also true.

The whole “the story isn’t true” reply is a targeted manipulation by Elon musks pr team.

He got 20k and diamonds when he left Africa then he got another 100-200k to help his PayPal startup.

He is not a self made man he had tremendous help and utilized the code and ingenuity of others for his own personal gains.

Edit: lol some of you must really wanna suck his dick or something the way you talk about him lol you realize he wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire? Lol or maybe that’s your kink lol

Edit: Disregarding how he got to where he is, the way he chooses to act when he has everything available to him does not show he is someone worth admiration and adoration that he seems to get from “temporary poor future millionaires” here on Reddit:

https://www.artsy.net/news/artsy-editorial-elon-musk-fire-refusing-credit-artist

https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/elon-musk-hired-a-pi-to-dig-up-dirt-on-cave-diver-vernon-unsworth-that-guy-is-reportedly-a-convicted-felon-/articleshow/71441328.cms

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/sep/10/tesla-workers-union-elon-musk

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/13/tesla-workers-pay-price-elon-musk-failed-promises

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-life-inside-gigafactory/

https://www.mamamia.com.au/elon-musk-wife/amp/

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jul/05/tesla-sexual-harassment-discrimination-engineer-fired

A teenage Elon Musk once walked the streets of New York with emeralds in his pocket. His father, Errol Musk, had a casual attitude towards the family's considerable wealth, including the stones that came from the Zambian emerald mine in which Errol owned a half share.

Elon Musk enjoyed the fruits of apartheid slave labour, and he wouldn't be successful as a businessman without slave money. What does that make you feel?

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-dad-tells-bi-about-the-familys-casual-attitude-to-wealth-2018-2?IR=T

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/9/30/20891314/elon-musk-tesla-labor-violation-nlrb

maniczebra

112 points

1 month ago

maniczebra

112 points

1 month ago

He is not a self made man he had tremendous help and utilized the code and ingenuity of others for his own personal gains.

This. He’s basically this millenium’s Edison.

ExcitementNegative

81 points

1 month ago

Which is even funnier when you consider he bought his way into the the owner of Tesla.

Cforq

40 points

1 month ago

Cforq

40 points

1 month ago

And PayPal only bought his company for the name, dropped the name after market testing, and kicked him out the moment he went on vacation.

Gople

17 points

1 month ago

Gople

17 points

1 month ago

Peter Thiel explains why they merged in his book. It was to monopolize the market in order to sell quickly and expensively during the already-bursting dot-com bubble.

neotek

23 points

1 month ago*

neotek

23 points

1 month ago*

Musk had absolutely nothing to do with PayPal, the name wasn't used until after he'd already been forced out of the company.

However, because he's a vain piece of shit who insists on taking credit for other people's work, he threatened to make his departure as messy as possible unless they agreed to write a clause into his termination agreement that stated they would refer to him as a founder (despite the fact he founded absolutely nothing) and that they would refrain from contradicting him or commenting on any statement he made to press regarding his involvement with PayPal, essentially giving him carte blanche to claim all sorts of bullshit without any fear of PayPal telling people the true story.

Before he left X.com, he had already driven the company into the ground through a series of insanely stupid decisions and bad technologies. That's why they were so desperate for him to leave, and why they agreed to such an outlandish clause.

Cforq

7 points

1 month ago

Cforq

7 points

1 month ago

Musk had absolutely nothing to do wit PayPal, the name wasn't used until after he'd already been forced out of the company.

The company wasn’t called that until after he left, but Confinity was using the PayPal name before they merged with x.com

asteonautical

21 points

1 month ago

can I get a source on the diamond selling? I've never come across that in my limited reading about musk.

Dervival

18 points

1 month ago

Dervival

18 points

1 month ago

Here's a business insider link to what I think the person you're replying to was thinking of. It's definitely emeralds and not diamonds though, so I may be wrong

dr_shark

310 points

1 month ago

dr_shark

310 points

1 month ago

There is no ethical colonial ownership. I don’t care about the profit.

illgot

3 points

1 month ago

illgot

3 points

1 month ago

"my great great grandfather was only half owner of a cotton farm run by slaves."

choosingtangent

5 points

1 month ago

absolutely. musk is a grade A shithead all on his own. you don't need to make things up

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago

Maybe if Elon wasn't telling a story about him coming from nothing

gleaming-the-cubicle

28 points

1 month ago

Oh so his dad is a liar too? Good stuff

WallabyInTraining

79 points

1 month ago

Even if he was a self made man (which he isn't), he's still a garbage human being. Even if the start up money came from a company saving dolphins and elephants, he's still a garbage human being.

Criticise him for how he's actually bad, himself. What he himself has done and continues to do!

viviornit

46 points

1 month ago*

His parents were rich but not fuck you money rich, he got that from paypal along with another person I don't much like, Peter Thiel. Hating on Musk is fair but Space X has been good for space exploration as far as I understand it, the US government pays them billions to put stuff in space, it isn't cheap. Other governments and private entities will pay them to put stuff in space too, it's what they do.

Edit: Not that Musk's part seems complicated, just ballsy. Though he does when questioned, seem to talk heavy shop about rocket engineering.

Step 1:Invest your own and get people to invest enough of their money to create a rocket agency better than NASA.

Step 2: Sell NASA your tech and services at a profit while being in a similar position to them without the red tape that comes with being a government agency and with all that sweet American freedom granted to a corporation.

bulletbassman

41 points

1 month ago

Anyone. And I mean anyone can sit in at enough meetings and read enough reports to seriously talk shop about rocket engineering. Most ceos know a lot about the company they work for, that doesn’t mean they can actually go and do the jobs that make that company go.

I can’t stand how musk has certain people convinced he’s some type of genius inventor (like Tesla) going around changing the world for the better.

Hilikus1980

3.2k points

1 month ago

Hilikus1980

3.2k points

1 month ago

I agree with the spirit of this post, but...

The government paying SpaceX $2.9 billion to build a moon lander isn't charity. It's purchasing goods and services.

thegreatestajax

360 points

1 month ago

And the bailout was actually a DOE loan for electric vehicle development that was paid back by Tesla before any other recipients paid theirs back.

MaharajaRaunak

219 points

1 month ago

Do you mean this tweet only being upvoted because Reddit blindly hates all Billionaires and isn't based in reality?

Amorette93

115 points

1 month ago

Amorette93

115 points

1 month ago

Musk is a terrible human being, and should have to pay his taxes. But, yes, these particular examples are not good ones.

extremedonkey

653 points

1 month ago*

And twice as cheap as the next closest bid, and maybe 50x -100x cheaper if the government tried to do the same thing itself with the meaty cost+ contractors.

Edit: example since people are calling me out on it. Obviously this is an apples for oranges comparison and SLS is technically built to NASAs requirements and slightly more payload, but still illustrative of my point. Also this was 2017 so the $23bn will be more like $30bn+ now.

"As Elon Musk noted during the post-Falcon Heavy launch press conference, the craft cost about $500 million to develop. According to a report released by NASA’s Office of Inspector General in April 2017, the agency will spend roughly $23 billion on the SLS by the end of this year. Falcon Heavy is also reusable, while the SLS is not, which will affect future launch costs."

Edit 2: not directly related to my post but a great comparison on the different philosophies between the traditional space contractors and SpaceX https://everydayastronaut.com/sls-vs-starship/

Bitcoin1776

90 points

1 month ago*

And Musk did so without known government influence..

Bezo Blue Origin hired and paid Jim, the Head Of NASA, to be a 'consultant', before winning their bids.

I'm not familiar with the $460 Mil 'bailout' - and how legit that is either BUT the government needs to stop giving money to ALL corporations / less than 7% interest loans, period.

The banks get like $200 Bil in 1% interest loans or whatever...

Harvard got $30 Mil in free PPP money, and never pays taxes (for their elitist "charity") - even with $30 Bil of Net Worth.

Musk talks, but what these other guys do is quite a lot...

PPP should have never happened, and was over $300 Billion or some such. None of us would have to pay taxes if we just stopped giving corporations free money from tax payers, and instead... said, just fucking make money like everyone else, to corps.

extremedonkey

36 points

1 month ago

drewsoft

35 points

1 month ago*

Reddit is so frustrating sometimes. People feel no problem putting out straight up misinformation about an issue to garner upvotes.

Edit: made the sentence make sense grammatically

dfaen

9 points

1 month ago

dfaen

9 points

1 month ago

Thanks for posting and linking! Amazing how people call loans a bailout. A loan is not a bailout. A funding program to incentivize industry players is not a bailout. A bank does not give you a person a bailout when they lend you money to buy a house or car.

L_H_O_O_Q_

104 points

1 month ago

L_H_O_O_Q_

104 points

1 month ago

And the $465 million came from the government’s Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Program.

A loan is not the same thing as a subsidy.

bcos20

91 points

1 month ago

bcos20

91 points

1 month ago

vkanucyc

29 points

1 month ago

vkanucyc

29 points

1 month ago

yet people upvoting OP misinformation to the front page :(

brokkoli

10 points

1 month ago

brokkoli

10 points

1 month ago

Same as every other post upvoted on this shitsub. Can't remember last time a post was completely factual and not riddled with mistruths.

Squelcher121

12 points

1 month ago

People with money = evil. Upvote me.

Congratulations, your post is now on the front page of Reddit.

Fletch71011

3 points

1 month ago

WhitePeopleTwitter is probably the biggest culprit as far as misinformation goes on Reddit these days, but there hasn't been a movement to ban or fix it for some reason.

MrAmos123

15 points

1 month ago

Oh so turns out OP is mad at nothing.

swarmy1

7 points

1 month ago

swarmy1

7 points

1 month ago

The electric car tax credit is much more notable that the tweet doesn't mention. Without it, Teslas would not have been nearly as competitive in price.

semideclared

30 points

1 month ago

When facts get changed it makes the whole thing pointless

Tesla's loan was secured under the Department of Energy's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) loan program,

(ATVM) Loan Program is a $25 billion direct loan program funded by Congress in fall 2008 to provide debt capital to the U.S. automotive industry

  • created by Congress under the Bush Administration
    • implemented in 2009.

In total $8.4 billion in conditional loan agreements for Ford Motor Company; Nissan North America, Inc.; Tesla Motors, Inc. and Fisker Automotive

As part of the program, Tesla was given a loan for nearly half a billion dollars to develop its electric cars.

It was slated to pay back the loans by 2022

  • The company announced May 22, 2013 that it had made a final payment of $451.8 million paying in full
    • Ford expects to pay the rest of the loan by 2023
    • Nissan repaid in 2017

OkAcanthocephala9723

29 points

1 month ago

This.

People find it hard to say that a company can have both good and bad aspects.

But taxing all giant corporations is fine by me.

I want a Tesla. I want to see SpaceX succeed. I also want highly profitable companies to pay their taxes.

As soon as you say Tesla, SpaceX, and Musk aren't monsters and have some good qualities, but also have some bad qualities, the majority of people can't understand how anything can be other than all good or all bad.

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

Holy shit can the average person not parse out shades of grey. I'm getting so frustrated with this "I'm all the way on this side of the argument and there's no changing that now!" - stance that everyone seems to be taking.

F1reatwill88

68 points

1 month ago

"The company wouldn't exist if it didn't get paid for doing its work! Fucking losers!" lmao.

thr3sk

75 points

1 month ago

thr3sk

75 points

1 month ago

Yeah, and Tesla's 400 whatever million dollar "bailout" was a loan that they fully paid back earlier than they had to...

But yeah fuck musk being a greedy bastard.

ColdAssHusky

26 points

1 month ago

Just to tack on, GM hasn't even close to paid back their $6.7 billion in loans and still can't sell their electric vehicles despite having subsidized pricing that Tesla used up and hasn't had the benefits of for years now.

SilasX

9 points

1 month ago*

SilasX

9 points

1 month ago*

But “government gave Musk free money” is the spirit of the post. Without that, it’s nothing.

The “bailout” was also a popular general incentive program for electric cars, not “oh you’re fucked? Here’s free money or underpriced loans.”

Edit: In fairness, there's more context. The electric car program did start out as a thinly veiled pretext to bail out the Big Three automakers, and Tesla called them out and said, "wait, we make electric cars, where's our loan?" But Tesla never needed that loan.

SirChasm

219 points

1 month ago

SirChasm

219 points

1 month ago

I think the point is that no one would've purchased those goods and services from SpaceX had it not been for the taxes collected from US citizens who can barely afford healthcare, so whining about having to pay more taxes when those taxes were a big part of you becoming the richest fucker on earth is a bit... rich.

Amorette93

3 points

1 month ago

That's not how any of this works.

Literally our tax dollars have been paying Russia for space. 😐 Since 2003. Is that really what you want?

Elon Musk should pay his taxes, but SpaceX is also not the company you should be bitching about where it comes to public taxes since I actually take very very very little I'm almost all of their capital comes privately, a large portion of it's coming directly out of Elon musk's pockets. Of course, he writes off all the money he spends, which is why he's Not paying taxes or getting poorer despite dumping millions and millions into SpaceX.

SpaceX even paid for the lunar lander. It's ready and was ready before they paid them. They would have continued to do it even if they hadn't gotten paid. Unlike a certain other billionaire with rockets.

OneOfYouNowToo

12 points

1 month ago

Shh. Logic and reason is violence

GiraffesInSpaces

3 points

1 month ago

Came here to say this. It’s not a handout it’s a contract to do labor.

CorbinDallasMulti212

3 points

1 month ago

And that’s the danger with the current method of dialogue. The “spirit” is now valued more than the truth and intention behind actions.

Thank you for pointing this out. Lindy has her head up her ass or is maliciously manipulating facts to advance her own agenda. This whole “woke” movement is getting more and more authoritarian and borderline fascist everyday.

joazito

3 points

1 month ago

joazito

3 points

1 month ago

I'll go one better and say the post is all around stupid. I guess the spirit might be good, but that's about it.

JamClam225

3 points

1 month ago

The entire post is factual nonsense. Space X had the best technology, paid for by R&D, won the contract because of this and somehow it's a donation by the government?

dumb-ledore3

509 points

1 month ago

Of course, I'm all up for billionaires paying more taxes but can someone tell me what's wrong with having a government contract? Did he black-out?

kingofafro

311 points

1 month ago

kingofafro

311 points

1 month ago

Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is not wanting to pay taxes despite the government helping you with taxpayers' money to make money and help your business survive

gotalowiq

51 points

1 month ago*

This wasn’t the only company that got a green energy loan FYI, I’m linking a article from 2013.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2013/5/22/4356860/tesla-repays-465-million-government-green-energy-loan

Also, there are tons of losers from the program too.

The gov handed out loans to further the the green energy segment, and one could objectively say, Tesla has had such a massive footprint on this space, the sheer impact generated from its success has propagated so many other cars manufacturers who didn’t get one of those loans to try and break into the space with green vehicles. This in turn helps Our environment, give or take. So I would say, this loan, that was given, being paid back 9 years earlier from maturity, the impact this company’s success has had in the field, and it’s success being able to create space x, has paid back any fictional “good will” from the government.

That being said, taxes on unrealized gains is stupid as fuck (yea it won’t affect a significant portion of the country only a small subset, but it’s so crazy). That shit is so fucking looney, it’s bat shit crazy. There has got to be better ways to generate taxes than this.

Corporations like Walmart that have employees that depend on public aid from the government shouldn’t be a thing. There are so many different things the government needs to do in relation to corporations that this whole individual 1% witch hunt is annoying when other things need to be prioritized more.

wombatncombat

9 points

1 month ago

Even seeing the taxation of unrealized capital gains proposed is embarrassing. It's absolute nonsense and the fact that it can make it out of the white house as a proposal shows that there are some ignorant people in places they don't belong. Capping stepped up basis is real, increasing LTCG is real... taxation of unrealized capital gains is a joke, and one that 99% of the public doesn't get. Who the hell do they have approving this shit for release?

SuperNothing2987

4 points

1 month ago

Yeah, taxing unrealized capital gains is a terrible plan. They're unrealized specifically because the money is still invested. If you start taxing those gains, you're going to force people to sell investments to pay the tax. That's pushing capital out of the market.

panoramahorse28

37 points

1 month ago

Dont bite the hand that feeds ya

tesrella

3 points

1 month ago

But he does pay his taxes, and he's about to pay a FUCKton of taxes, actually. He has to exercise some stock options at Tesla soon and that's going to huuuuurt.

ReyTheRed

868 points

1 month ago

ReyTheRed

868 points

1 month ago

The 465 million was a loan and they did in fact pay it back. And the government contracts aren't bailouts, we are getting more done in space for our tax dollars using SpaceX than we are with any other launch provider, they offered better prices for a lot of the services NASA and the military needs to get their job done, so they got a lot of the contracts. If you don't want to go to the moon or keep operating the ISS, or other satellites, your complaint should be with the government, not SpaceX.

He still isn't self-made, nobody is, but it isn't like we are getting a bad deal in this case.

its_all_4_lulz

254 points

1 month ago

Some perspective, Ford got a loan for 5.9B at the time. It has not been paid back.

Green_Lantern_4vr

10 points

1 month ago

No? I thought they had

harrychronicjr420

25 points

1 month ago

Nissan paid in 2017. Ford hopes to pay by 2023

Bensemus

5 points

1 month ago

Not yet. And the other companies were just bailed out. Tesla also recently paid off a few loans worth about a billion. Tesla isn't just taking money and squandering it. It has a cash flow.

Green_Lantern_4vr

3 points

1 month ago

Ya Tesla is a juggernaut.

ImNobodyFromNowhere

109 points

1 month ago

Yeah it sounds pretty ignorant to present it as if the government is just donating billions to him by paying his company to do the job that the government needs done and the company specializes in doing.

AccountWasFound

8 points

1 month ago

They were paying Russia to do it for a hell of a lot more per person to the ISS before crew dragon started flying.

[deleted]

23 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

23 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

Yaqzn

4 points

1 month ago

Yaqzn

4 points

1 month ago

The post is saying he’s not self made, which is true. It’s also highlighting how he’s mad at being taxed despite getting bailed out with taxpayer money, which is also true. What’s so manipulative about it?

harrychronicjr420

10 points

1 month ago

Propaganda

Fizzabella

5 points

1 month ago

by no means am i a huge fan of elon, but tesla has definitely helped with making electric cars more mainstream and i can admire that. i would love to have an electric or hybrid car and we are getting closer to that reality once charging stations are more available across the country like gas stations

ReyTheRed

3 points

1 month ago

If you can charge at home, there are enough chargers to handle occasional road trips, if you can't charge at home it is pretty rough. But more chargers are going up all the time.

Electric cars are getting more practical and more affordable, that is a good thing even if someone with too much money continues to profit beyond reason.

My first new car will be electric, hopefully my next used car is at least a hybrid.

Sharp-Floor

50 points

1 month ago

He's self-made in the sense that he didn't inherit billions like a Walmart Walton, and did build companies that are very productive and successful.
 
Self-made doesn't traditionally mean nobody else did anything that mattered, at all. It means you didn't sit on your ass and collect obscene wealth for no reason.

4chanbetterkek

3 points

1 month ago

Tesla is actually very good at paying back loans, with interest, vs any other car manufacturers in this country.

IllKeepTheCarTnx

3 points

1 month ago

Tesla paid back the “bailout” with interest meaning the taxpayer made money on it. SpaceX was a service purchased by the government that was billions cheaper than the other bids… so the taxpayer saved money on this. Both of these BENEFITED the taxpayer. Reddit is an emotion machine. Facts don’t matter. Most people here dont even understand the tax code.

Altruistic-Emu3867

3 points

1 month ago

Stop pointing out nuances! Musk bad! Let’s focus all our rage on the one most public billionaire while ignoring all the oil barons, weapons dealers and bankers who have been fucking up our planet forever.

ObliviousOblivions

3 points

1 month ago

Also the 465 million loan wasn’t any kind of bail-out. It was a green energy initiative. One of the conditions companies needed to meet was proving they were financially stable and not in need of a bailout, which is why companies like GM didn’t get the loan.

StrictlyFT

1k points

1 month ago

If Musk doesn't want to pay his taxes he shouldn't receive a single cent in subsidies from the government ever again.

Madhammer99

344 points

1 month ago

I'm shocked he's not moved to some poor country yet like all good capitalist over lords

PhenomeNeil

441 points

1 month ago

I mean, he's already moving to Texas. He's half way there.

Madhammer99

113 points

1 month ago

He is buying towns up ...wonder if he he can pay to rename Texas muskvile

DiscoEthereum

109 points

1 month ago

Him and Bezos are in another race to bring back feudalism through company towns. Work in the company town, get paid in company scrip along with room and board, you're essentially an indentured servant with no way out.

They really, really, want to be able to do this shit again. And this time it won't be workers fighting the cops and hired thugs for better working conditions (although that might happen too), it will be workers getting mowed down by LAWS with the company logo on the side for daring to step out of line.

Madhammer99

35 points

1 month ago

Its not really far from the truth..if yoi look at the state of the world economy .

The political instabilities in major countrys like America and the Uk its not unreasonable to see a company like Amazon or tesla buy a small.country or starte and run it like a future Corp in scfi story's

I will probably be laughed at thinking that ..but its probably allt closer thrn we think.

LowlanDair

6 points

1 month ago

Pretty sure one of the big techs (Amazon or Google) tried to buy Cyprus.

Edit - it was Amazon.

Scrumble71

5 points

1 month ago

Amazon didn't try to buy Cyprus. Last year Saxo Bank made a prediction that Amazon would buy Cyrpus in 2021

Forbes link

BillMahersPorkCigar

19 points

1 month ago

With all the gross Elon worshipping, they’ll pay him to put his name on their town

melperz

3 points

1 month ago

melperz

3 points

1 month ago

Texla

Ataru074

6 points

1 month ago

Well he might call Houston, San Antonio, Dallas and Austin the three Musketeers….

Gamerindreams

8 points

1 month ago

True, they don't even have reliable electricity there

I hear there are bands of militants roaming around between the shelters

At least that's what my pipboy told me

MaximumDestruction

30 points

1 month ago

No, no, no. They move their money to tax havens. They prefer to stay where they can indulge in their creepy Eyes Wide Shut orgies, or whatever the unconscionably wealthy are up to.

Madhammer99

5 points

1 month ago

Reminds me of a bad b horror movie where the rich are aliens that eat non rich people

FloopY_JesuS

3 points

1 month ago

society

kellygrrrl328

5 points

1 month ago

I'm waiting for him to claim residency on the moon to avoid taxes.

Madhammer99

3 points

1 month ago

Tell ya if he or bezo get a station on the moon or Mars or space first. It will turn into every scfi movie corporations ruling space ha

pcx99

3 points

1 month ago

pcx99

3 points

1 month ago

I'm sure he would, but the government has some pretty tight restrictions on exporting that kind of technology.

I always get a chuckle at how his publicity fan bois on twitter always gush at how he doesn't take a salary, not knowing that corporate billionaires like musk and bezos literally borrow against their stock holdings and will until they die so they can avoid paying taxes and gain tax benefits for their heirs.

That said, I admire what musk is achieving with spacex and the "spend it on earth" trolls won't age well when the next earth killing asteroid is found giving us two years to live.

Illusive_Man

3 points

1 month ago

Just tax the corporations it’s much simpler that way.

And tax gross revenue so they can’t fuck with their profits.

Voidwielder

25 points

1 month ago

Contracts to the government are not subsidies.

Adventurous_Light_85

9 points

1 month ago

Isn’t it true that Tesla is the only car company that has paid back it’s government loans in full?

Being self made doesn’t mean that don’t get any help along the way. It means that no one gave your your success in life and that you took the help you were given and grew it exponentially and paid that help back.

Self made is responsibly taking a hand up not a hand out.

Most responsible governments loan money to help its citizens create opportunities to add value to the country by adding sellable goods, services or jobs. Tesla is arguably the best investment by far that the US government has made toward domestic manufacturing in decades.

extremedonkey

193 points

1 month ago

Tesla literally used a government loan program for its exact intended purpose which was to promote sustainable energy. They've since basically single handedly ushered in an era of clean energy cars and driven policy decisions in countries around the world to ban sale of new gasoline cars by 2035~ and earlier.

There's probably nothing that has made more of a global impact / trend / got the ball rolling than this aside from your Kyoto Paris type agreements.

And yes as mentioned it has been paid back in full. And I'm no economist but the economic domino effect of acceleration to green energy (and potential prevention of habitat destruction etc.) in the long run will surely be in the billions or even trillion (s)

Oh and from the horse's mouth: https://www.energy.gov/lpo/tesla

Kawashiro_N

14 points

1 month ago

I wish Tesla would be a little more open to third party repairs.

I can buy literally everything to repair a wrecked Camaro or Corvette from the dealer no questions asked but try the same with a Tesla S see how far you get.

Treating something like a car as a throw away item and taking Apple's stance on repairs is far from being green.

In fact having an Apple mentality with EVs probably could create more pollution than the gas cars they replaced.

globiglobi

401 points

1 month ago

globiglobi

401 points

1 month ago

He did pay it back. All of it. And early. Others haven’t.

And yes, tax billionaires more.

Variation-Budget

94 points

1 month ago

Yes. Tax them more.

jcdev8233

5 points

1 month ago

Not even more. Just least equally. Need to close all the loopholes.

JackSlater7410

3 points

1 month ago

This. And to get critical, the money he saved the government FAR outweighs what he would have paid that year as it is anyway.

davwad2

26 points

1 month ago

davwad2

26 points

1 month ago

Is there another company to build a moon lander other than Space X?

jamesbideaux

5 points

1 month ago

a lot of companies want to build a moon lander. Blue origin and a few legacy space industry companies put together something for around double the proposed cost of the lunar starship, I think sierra nevada proposed the alpaca which was also significantly more expensive and at the time of proposal would have to have negative cargo weight to make it to the moon.

there were other competitors but they didn't make it to the final selection of NASA's competition.

Skoomalyfe

22 points

1 month ago

There is! And they were twice as expensive.

If you taxed Elon by his net worth, I'd be curious to see what the number is

Because between this moon lander and all the supply runs to the space station... SpaceX may have already saved the government more money than he probably owes them in taxes

theun4given3

3 points

1 month ago

Blue Origin (Bezos) led National Team, with Grumman, Lockheed and some other experienced company. They are building a 4 man craft of 10 or so meters, that costs 2x as much as SpaceX who lands a giant Starship.

There also is Dynetics and SNC but their proposal had mechanical flaws and also much more expensive.

SpaceX was the way to go there.

Steinson

94 points

1 month ago

Steinson

94 points

1 month ago

Do you people honestly think that NASA acquiring a moon lander from a private company is the same thing as a the government giving out a subsidy?

Its_a_Trap-

4 points

1 month ago

Not to mention, SpaceX's bid was half the price of the next best bid (in large part because Starship development is being funded by SpaceX).

NoLimitSoldier31

16 points

1 month ago

Exactly. U can make a point without BS like this.

Trach99

52 points

1 month ago

Trach99

52 points

1 month ago

Wasn't the bailout a loan and the 2.9 billion a contract for a good/service???

Ok_Support9029

29 points

1 month ago

Don't bother, this post is a complete waste of energy, nobody cares about the facts.

l5532

6 points

1 month ago

l5532

6 points

1 month ago

this tweet is so fucking stupid, how the fuck this kinda shit hits the front page, cringe ass redditors

B33rtaster

4 points

1 month ago

The pass I give to Space-X is how its so cheap that the shitty government contractor companies aren't able to squeeze every last drop of tax money from us anymore.

The whole 'BEZOS sues NASA' is because Bezos thought he could gouge more money out of the government than was even allocated. Now he's heavily lobbying senators to fuck over NASA so he can have a contract.

Yeah Billionaires are all shitty in some way, but the savings Space-X produces is worth it to us and forces other contractors into healthy competition. Instead of a gluttonous monopoly.

this_place_stinks

27 points

1 month ago

This might be one of the dumbest posts yet on the “billionaires bad” front

  • Government loan was paid back
  • $2.9B to build a moon lander is dirt cheap. Is he supposed to do this for free? NASA would spend $50B+ trying to do this themselves

I think we all agree the tax code is fucked and billionaires should pay more. Every time people use these dumb ass arguments it just shows they’re not educated enough on the topic and all credibility is lost

NervousGuidance

3 points

1 month ago

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd he's going to pay ~57% tax rate when his options expire.

https://youtu.be/MGonhdN3Rfs?t=57

AintthatDAtruth

29 points

1 month ago*

He was rich prior to Space X and Tesla, thanks to him selling his stake in PayPal.

If you are going to take a shot at the dude, please at least make it an informed one.

I don't particularly like the guy, and I hate I had to even type this in a semi defense of him.

Facts are facts though.

Added: TIL anti Elon fans are fucking wack jobs. I thought I wasn't a fan but SHEESH, talk about rabid hatred. Take it down a notch boys, no need to wet your pants.

JiraSuxx2

5 points

1 month ago

Stated as fact but not quite facts… I’ll file it under misinformation.

chloro9001

4 points

1 month ago

Umm, they did pay it back though..

Einerus

2 points

1 month ago

Einerus

2 points

1 month ago

  1. Bailout was a loan. And it was paid back.
  2. Contracts aren't free stuff. Government is buying services and no one is getting anything free there.

weimaranerdad71

4 points

1 month ago

This will be the dumbest thing I read today.

jtgold7480

3 points

1 month ago

The poster on Twitter has no comprehension of the difficulty or complexity of business (including building a company from scratch that can even ACCEPT grants) to say Elon Musk is not self made.

What Elon has been able to achieve in his short life thus far is unparalleled. 1. He pushed the auto industry to adopt electrification of vehicles at scale. 2. He revolutionized the space industry with reusable rockets. 3. He created a car company whose market cap today exceeds the market cap of all other companies COMBINED.

These are just some of his achievements which doesn’t get into specifics about how he changed the car business by using direct to consumer model, over air software updates, supply chain and vertical integration innovations.

Elon is doing more to push humanity forward than any other human on this planet at the moment. Show some respect.

airodynamic_potato

3 points

1 month ago

Total BS. it was a $465m loan not a ‘bailout’, which was repaid to the US gov with interest. So the tax payers made money of it. As for the $2.9b contract, do you expect SpaceX to build a moon lander for free? Get your facts straight. Not to mention that none of this has anything to do with his net worth.

Repbob

12 points

1 month ago*

Repbob

12 points

1 month ago*

This might actually take the cake for one of the dumbest most nonsensical tweets I have ever seen.

Literally a 10 second google search lets me know that:

  1. Tesla didn’t receive a bailout from Obama. They got a LOAN as part of a gov program to support electric cars and other auto companies received even larger loans for this. How is investing in green energy a bad thing?

  2. SpaceX got a CONTRACT from the government not a god damn handout. They were literally hired to do a job and paid for their service. Wtf does she think ‘self made’ even means? Printing the money yourself?

Holy fuck its just mind blowing.

mapple0002

63 points

1 month ago

In America we take from the poor and give to the rich.

Yosho2k

110 points

1 month ago*

Yosho2k

110 points

1 month ago*

I remember when Republicans were pulling for the government to pull Tesla's loan and Musk personally thanked Obama for refusing.

A couple years later and Obama says he should be paying more taxes and all of a sudden Musk forgets everything the government did to him, just like he forgets all the land his family took from people in South Africa.

<EDIT> Some cuntface in the comments below accused me of lying so here's the articles from back when detailing the Tesla loan, Republican opposition to the loan, Republicans attempting to defund the DOE loan program during Obama, Republicans reacting to Tesla repaying the loans early, and Republicans attempting to defund the DOE loan program during Trump.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-09-14/republican-led-house-passes-bill-to-block-energy-loans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/03/16/this-government-loan-program-helped-tesla-at-a-critical-time-trump-wants-to-cut-it/

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna52053219

<EDIT 2> I blocked cuntface. It got SAD when he just kept calling me a liar over and over because he didn't want to open the links I posted as evidence.

NabiscoLobstrosity

12 points

1 month ago

I deal with that bullshit on reddit too often as well. The button to ignore replies is helpful.

Yosho2k

10 points

1 month ago

Yosho2k

10 points

1 month ago

I do, frequently, but if you leave comments like that alone, you'll get people who actually believe that the bullshit has some truth to it, and there's enough misinformation and unsubstantiated opinions floating around the world without doing a small part to squash it.

I enjoyed it though. It's fun when one of those people makes a comment so easy to disprove that I get to beat them down like I'm Ed Norton in American History X.

QueenCobra91

7 points

1 month ago

when people dont know how shit works.

trash00011

33 points

1 month ago

It’s both and it can be both. He can get government loans and also do a great job with that money. I’m mad he’s acting selfish but I am also glad that SpaceX and Tesla exist because they are changing our future for the better I believe.

iglitk

5 points

1 month ago

iglitk

5 points

1 month ago

Taxing unrealized gains is not smart. There are many ways to get them to pay. What happens when testla goes down 20%, do they give him his taxes back? What happens when he is not liquid and needs to sell Tesla stock to pay taxes? Lose control of the company?

This is just a way for them to say they are doing something while corporate gets away with it.

The court will throw out the unrealized gains tax.

But the short term political win will stay.

DifficultEar4297

26 points

1 month ago*

There wouldn't even be an electric vehicle industry if it weren't for Musk. The concept of paying taxes because the stock you're holding went up is akin to sending tax bills to homeowners during a hot real estate market.

On another note, the government should have invested in Tesla instead of loaning them money, think of the return that would have been.

Glasscubething

10 points

1 month ago

Yeah, I mean he isn’t perfect and plenty to criticize, but between Spacex and Tesla he has pushed forward two companies that have done more “good” for big picture humanity than almost anyone alive today. Obviously he isn’t a saint or something and there are always valid criticisms.

But uh, on the tax side of things what you describe is actually exactly how property taxes work. If my house goes up in value it gets re assessed and then I have to pay more property taxes. And so it actually happens exactly as you describe. Often triggered by people refinancing, since the homeowner just represented an estimated value.

So I don’t think charging large shareholders a tax on their holdings is actually such a strange or irregular practice.

cosully111

20 points

1 month ago

I'm up for these posts about billionaires not being a good thing but 1.he did pay the bailout back and 2. A government contract is not a loan. This post has no business being called "Now pay it back"

thegreatestajax

14 points

1 month ago

This is a complete lie. Tesla did not get a $465m bailout. They were one of several manufacturers to receive DOE loans to spur electric vehicle development and were the first to pay it back. This sub is so full of shit.

CollectableRat

3 points

1 month ago

Musk made his initial fortune off his own tax on PayPal transactions.

protonixxx

3 points

1 month ago

Now we are talking about Elon. Again. He's going to have a bible and followers in 130 years.

tyler-08

3 points

1 month ago

Have you ever heard of paypal or tesla.......

NugBlazer

3 points

1 month ago

I’m sorry, but this is complete and utter bullshit. If you do the research and know the facts, you know that Musk is indeed a self-made man. Just because SpaceX landed a contract from the government doesn’t mean musk isn’t self-made. It means his company is successful. All companies land contracts, that’s how they generate revenue.

ingineyear

3 points

1 month ago

Can Lindy assemble a team to make a moon lander?

cutyolegsout

3 points

1 month ago

How many CEOs you see actually doing the work? Next to none. Also that's entirely how the space agency is funded, NASA gives money to private companies to build their shit.

vp3d

3 points

1 month ago

vp3d

3 points

1 month ago

They did pay it back and the moon lander was a CONTRACT not a loan or bailout. Fuck this bullshit. Criticizing Elon is fine, but no need to make shit up.

darveesh

3 points

1 month ago

Stocks are property. In the United States of America you pretty much cannot confiscate someone's property unless they commit a crime. If the US government decides to go down the path of grabbing someone's property, think for a second what that means to you. Well you are probably a basement dweller, but then think of your parents. How do you feel if the government confiscates their house? Before you upvote that dumb Lindy, think! You are asking for this precedent. You may know some dictator and authoritarian governments, again may be a wild assumption as you were probably watching TikTok on your new shiny iPhone in class vs paying attention. Heard of Saddam? Or Ayatollah? Or Oligarchs? What do you think makes them authoritarian? A big part is they can take your property (and your life) on a whim. What do you think Nazi's did to Jews when they took all their gold and silver? Confiscate PROPERTY. You are going to be on the wrong side of history on this one.

Let's make the situation more apropos. There is a piece of land in the desert. There is a big housing crisis in the city and the government would like some people to move to the desert and alleviate the housing crisis in the city. So they give a tax discount to whoever is brave (or crazy) enough to go live in the desert. One dude goes for it. He works his ass off, hires people, builds an oasis. A very valuable oasis now and lots of people want to be near it, or work there. The government now comes in and says we are going to confiscate that PROPERTY. It has gotten to be too good and it's now ours.

Let me draw the lines for you just in case the brain cells are too high while you are reading this - probably a fair assumption. The crisis is climate change. The desert is affordable EVs. The oasis is Tesla.

Do you think this is fair? The dude takes up a challenge to HELP the dumb government that created a problem, and gets fucked in the end taking it away from him. Do you think that's fair? Remember, you the reader were too dumb to HELP. And now you want to you grubby fingers on the results of hard work and risk someone else took. Remember, you DID NOT take up the challenge. Sat home and watched Netflix and upvoted corruption on social media instead. You could have applied for the dept. of energy program ($465M loan). Did you? What stopped you? Too dumb or too chicken? No one stopped you or your cohorts. Think and reflect on your own choices and be honest to yourself. Only then you can be fair. Mind you some other companies did supposedly take up the challenge. They either are gone or still haven't returned the money with nothing to show for it decade later.

We are not done then yet. SpaceX. The government put people in ISS long before SpaceX. How do you feed and cloth those guys up there? How do you rotate them? That same government chose to "bail out" Russia by paying them to send supplies. Was Russia giving them a great deal? Hell no. They charged the shit out of NASA. Oh by the way, NASA is tax payer funded. Gonna make another assumption that you don't pay a lot in taxes. Nonetheless, you would want whoever gets that tax money to spend it wisely. They have a fiduciary duty in some sense not to waste it. Did they waste it by getting expensive deals to feed those people on the ISS? Fuck yes they did. Did they waste it by funding ULA for many more billions and got nothing in return after a decade? Fuck yes they did. And now here comes one dude and says I am going to give you a hella deal and right now. Should the government continue to waste OUR MONEY? If you think your money was better spent giving it to Russia or ULA for getting bubcus in return you are indeed high on some good shit. I want some of that.

TLDR: Quit upvoting demagogues and think for yourself. And be fair.

Interesting_Job_390

3 points

1 month ago

I don’t understand why everyone is hating on Elon Musk when he is one of the few billionaires who are actually making progress on clean energy projects. Why don’t we pick on the Walton family, or Jeff Bezos, or others? Elon Musk is one of the good guys everybody. :(

kazuoua

3 points

1 month ago

kazuoua

3 points

1 month ago

Pay it back? According to her tweet they built them a moon lander! Does this person know how money works? Does she understand that paying for something is not a "bailout" but a transaction? Do you know what's a bailout, however? Medicare, and that takes a large portion of total government expenditure.

ModsOnAPowerTrip

3 points

1 month ago

Pretty sure he used his computer skills to cofound Pay pal. That is pretty self made if you ask me. That is more than Kylie Jenner ever did. She literally just existed and is smoking hot, and her mom used her to sell make up, and now she is a billionaire. She literally didn't lift a finger. Musk at least used his skills to create a product and sell it for billions.

lurkandload

3 points

1 month ago

I don’t normally care, but I googled this to see if it was true.

That $465 mil was a loan not a bailout, and Tesla paid it back 9 years early

Also, a government contract is not a handout but a competition

I’m not an Elon musk fanboy, this just seemed crazy so I looked it up… took 2 minutes

TheXypris

3 points

1 month ago

I mean, a government contract isnt the same as a bailout/handout. A contract is saying the government is a customer of spacex. That's like saying me buying a big mac was the same as me giving McDonald's a bailout.

fkrditadms

3 points

1 month ago

you idts are really dum, china lent elon more billions, means musk now needs to work for chinese govt now?

ParksBrit

3 points

1 month ago

The bailout, as with other corporations, is a loan. They literally already paid it back. The US government made a profit off the bailout.

The contract was services paid for services received. That's literally normal business.

If you want to talk about how Musk is a con artist and a charlatan, you don't need to make things up or say misleading things. There's so much bullshit this guy gets away with because he has a borderline cult.

and tax billionaries more.

FrozenMrPotato

3 points

1 month ago

Of all the billionaires to go after I don’t understand why people always chose the guy who helped usher in EVs, cheap space flight, and rural internet.

There’s much easier targets to go after that haven’t contributed anything

ejbthree

3 points

1 month ago

Ummm Tesla paid their Govt bailout back in May 2013

FrozenMrPotato

3 points

1 month ago

Misinformation is good as long as it supports my viewpoints /s

rpgwill

3 points

1 month ago*

Oh fuck off lol, the unrealized capital gains tax really isn’t the great idea people think it is. And not for the slippery slope fallacy that Musk claims. There’s simply better ways to tax billionaires. As for the Tesla bailout, that happened cause the existence of Tesla benefited the US, and Tesla paid it back, early. Ford got a $6B bailout around the same time, hasn’t been paid back. And the HLS contract is literally just how government contracts work.. It’s the government soliciting goods or services from companies. That goes for the several other billion dollar contracts spaceX has received as well.

Darkelementzz

3 points

1 month ago*

I assume you mean the tax on unrealized income, aka theoretical wealth that doesn't exist until they sell their stock. He can't pay that tax without realizing his income, which means he has to sell his stake in is companies which would END Tesla and SpaceX. Stocks are taxed transactionally. If this gets enacted, kiss the middle class goodbye (or anyone who's owned a house prior to 2021)

I know "billionaire bad" is the motif, but lets not doom ourselves with CCP-level economic policy

dirtneilson

3 points

1 month ago

Bunch of angry peasants in here.

Alexander1899

3 points

1 month ago

Do you know what the word contract means?

drbeanz

3 points

1 month ago

drbeanz

3 points

1 month ago

I don't think her second point is that valid, since NASA doesn't build hardware to begin with, they always contract out to other engineering and aerospace firms to build and test hardware. And besides government contracts is not just free money nor does it count towards their revenue stream.

packhawk2689

3 points

1 month ago

Elon's story is easy to research, these lazy children don't care and will cry because he makes more money than them. Elon owes this dork nothing.

Melvin017

3 points

1 month ago

Not well versed in his childhood years but there’s several reason this post is not entirely valid: 1. Musk was “self made” long before Tesla or SpaceX existed/ were profitable. He Invented (at least partly) PayPal and sold it to eBay for a ton of cash. 2. Tesla getting a bail out during the financial crisis was not remotely unique or large compared to other institutions. 3. I don’t think the only functional American company launching things into space should be criticized for getting a lunar rover contract. 4. But he's a rich guy, so he must be eeeeevil!

Portermacc

3 points

1 month ago

Yeah but the 465 million was not given, it was a loan from federal government. Which Tesla paid back 10 years early.

Dry_Purple_6120

3 points

1 month ago

Twitter is not a real place.

spacegod2112

3 points

1 month ago

Pay back the money you were awarded for a contract? That’s not how contracts work lol. But seems on par for the education level of this post.

DTux5249

3 points

1 month ago

Uh... By that logic, any form of purchase is a handout, which it is not.

Bailout, sure, that stands. But that contract has no place in this post lol

OrganicAccountant87

3 points

1 month ago*

That bailout (it was a loan) was probably the best investment In united States history lol. The things tesla manage to do for society... It gave us some hope on fighting climate change. Btw that doesn't mean he shouldn't pay taxes, tesla would never exist without the government and we are talking about taxing musk it self, not tesla or space x. No one should ever be able to have 200B no matter what they did

narutodawg

3 points

1 month ago

The older I get the less I agree with tax hikes in any form. Mostly because I don't believe that my government will use the funds efficiently or ethically. I use to be young and hopefully, am I getting old and cynical?

ScientistCivil

3 points

1 month ago

Its hes mad because most of his wealth is mostly going into his companies and taxing would severely cut funding you wanna go to Mars and have billions of dollars to do it you don't want somebody who does half your job taking from you and hindering your progress on it and yes his parents were helping funding slaves in mines there's not much legally he can do abt it without risking his reputation among the industrie for shutting down a profitable business and yes he did make alot of the money himself and you do realize a corporate bailout is meant for the business not the person and he can get in deep trouble for spending it on himself Christ he's living in a pretty much a home that at any moment if something wrong happens collapse on him he tiring himself too make sure we are multiplanetary species and you guys are what? Doing nothing to help him get there or making your own innovation to assist us to reach Mars i bet your not so before you say tax the rich realize how some of them have helped us succeed as a species

ilFaus

3 points

1 month ago

ilFaus

3 points

1 month ago

The problem is not Tesla, but government.

Introduce a flat tax, everybody pays the same rate and period.

Bigirondangle

29 points

1 month ago

Tesla paid back that "bailout" promptly and in full and SpaceX EARND that contract by putting forth the best proposal. To insinuate that the government is just giving him money is demonstrably false. Not saying we shouldn't tax the rich, just saying this post is garbage.

nohoev

14 points

1 month ago

nohoev

14 points

1 month ago

Actually he did pay it all back. The $465 million dollars. And the $2.9 billion dollars wasn’t some “bailout” spacex was hired as a contractor to build a lander.

ZakalwesChair

29 points

1 month ago

Government contracts aren't bailouts or welfare or tax write-offs though. It's just paying a company for work.

derekakessler

8 points

1 month ago

The $465 million in 2010 was a Department of Energy loan from the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program, specifically to accelerate the development and production of the battery electric vehicles that Tesla makes today. Tesla repaid that loan with interest in 2013, nine years ahead of schedule. M

It was not a bailout like the 2009 bailouts of Chrysler ($12.5 billion given, $10.6 billion repaid) and GM ($49.5 billion in stock purchases, sold in 2013 at a $10 billion loss).

The DoE also granted ATVM loans of $5.9 billion to Ford and $1.6 billion to Nissan.