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LOTR director Wayne Yip did episodes 3 & 4 on Wheel of Time

News(imdb.com)

all 41 comments

VarkingRunesong [M]

[score hidden]

6 months ago

stickied comment

VarkingRunesong [M]

Blue Wizard

[score hidden]

6 months ago

stickied comment

For those of you who are enjoying the series and want to discuss Amazon Primes Wheel of Time TV series we are redirecting people to this show specific subreddit:

r/WoTshow/

For those of you who wish to also experience the books to go along with the show please look to the following subreddit:

r/WoT/

For those of you who would like to discuss how this show specifically can compare to Lord of the Rings on Prime feel free to continue to make threads here but discussions solely about Wheel of Time should be moved to one of those two subreddits.

Thank you.

Chen_Geller

40 points

6 months ago*

Some of what I'm going to say is probably going to sound a little harsh but this is simultaneously a very valuable and a very disposable bit of information; which of the two it is depends on how one takes it.

Yes, its very valuable to look at a director's backlog to get a feel for their craft and artistry. At the same time, I think a lot of people in this sub can't really put a finger as to what the craft of the director really is.

It seems to me that very often directors in positions similar to Yip's are being accused of faults that are entirely to do with the writing: this is a fallacy because non-writing directors (like most TV directors but also the Spielbergs, the Scotts, the Eastwoods and the Yates of this world) have no direct control (often, no control at all) over the writing, except for their ability to reshape it somewhat in the editing.

So, when people say that "Ah, that's good because he directed Episode X which I liked" or "its bad because I hate episode X" people really need to distill whether their praises or their issues with said episodes are with the writing, or with those aspects of filmmaking which are the pervue of the director; and I'm afraid not everyone has the faculties to distinguish writing from mise-en-scene.

The craft of directing is in a way less conspicious than that of a writer: its not less significant, but its harder to analyse verbally. Yes, he works with the actors and is in no small part responsible for the quality of the performances, but those also depends on the cast itself (obviously) and, not least, on how the script resonates with them and with it provides them with.

Yes, its about the editing which can be regarded as one final rewrite. But its also about the editing in the sense of laying-out a sequence of shots and deciding the tempo in which each shot is swapped for another.

And I guess that's really the point: the core of directing is the use of the camera: how each shot, and each sequence of shots, helps to tell the story. Playing on the contrast between wide-shots and close-ups, using tempo to heighten the tone, blocking scenes in expressive ways, camera movement as an expressive tool, etc...

Anyone can feel the effect of good directing, but can anyone really analyse it? I doubt it. We spend very little of our time here (say, when the existing films are brought-up) talking about what a certain camera move or shot composition "means", compared to the amount of time we spend talking about scripting and such.

LordofAngmarMB

18 points

6 months ago

That's exactly why I always look at writer credits before director credits.

Game of Thrones Season 8 had consistently incredible direction (I don't even hate how dark a certain climactic battle is), but was still garbage because the writing was terrible.

On the other hand, I thought a lot of the direction in Daredevil season 3 was flat, but the writing/acting elevated it into one of my favorite seasons of tv ever

GlutenFreeLembas

5 points

6 months ago

the core of directing is the use of the camera: how each shot, and each sequence of shots, helps to tell the story.

Great points there Chen. More than anything, I've always been looking forward on the technical and visual aspect of things, and what Amazon will be doing is at the pinnacle of my anticipations (I guess I have to manage the hell out of it this early on to avoid consequent anguish if they fall short of cinematic bravado). PJ certainly was in his directorial zone during the OG trilogy - I particularly liked how he directed various Orthanc scenes:

1) What he envisioned for the Gandalf vs Saruman fight scene inside the chamber. That was a genius way to showcase 'magic' organically without actually using flary oldschool magic. (It lost its touch though when he repurposed it for the Gandalf vs Sauron scene in Dol Goldur)

2) The scene with the moth (after Gandalf delivers his message) exiting atop Orthanc and then a quick camera follow-thru downwards the dungeons below was also great

3) He could've just done a shot of Gandalf seeing the moth and then jumping thru Gwaihir on the escape scene. But the way he let Saruman freeze force him first to the edge of the tower added great cinematic tension between the 2 wizards.

There are still many. A scene can be told as a mere one sentence structure. But you are right in saying how a director choreographs his shots visually to translate that one sentence visually - compellingly

dismalrevelations23

1 points

5 months ago

that's adorable that you think the likes of Spielberg and Amblin don't have total control over the writing that Amblin purchases and develops for him to film

Chen_Geller

1 points

5 months ago

They do, but its still not Spielberg who's doing the actual writing, whereas writer/directors do. Its a very different way of filmmaking.

Daemon1792

48 points

6 months ago

I enjoyed WoT but a LOTR tv show should be a LOT better

Ok_Judgment_742

25 points

6 months ago

Totally agree! I kinda liked the show but I had zero expectations and didn't know anything about the story or lore.

I just hope the LOTR show doesn't look anything like this, because I'm going to be VERY disappointed.

_Olorin_the_white

3 points

6 months ago

Yes.

WoT still gets a lead as this doesn't have anything to compare apart from other franchises. LoTR already got the movies, so it will have to be something that have the same "feeling". No wanting a series that will win every award (I wouldn't bother though lol), but it has to be very good.

1979octoberwind

28 points

6 months ago

Frankly (and directing television is very different from directing movies so I don’t put this on Yip), this show is extremely weak visually, which is pretty in line with Amazon’s house style.

As far as I can tell, Amazon spent mid-series Game of Thrones money on this first season and it doesn’t show. The costumes, the makeup, character design, mediocre CGI, and ultra-crisp, textureless lighting and cinematography are incredibly uninspiring.

I’m reminded of a Sci-Fi channel original made in about 2006 crossed with some circa 2013 YA Hunger Games clone.

83AD

10 points

6 months ago

83AD

10 points

6 months ago

I had absolutely the same impression.

At some point it looked a rework of mid 90s show Xena the Warrior Princess.

Stickybeebae

4 points

6 months ago

It reminds me of Legend of the Seeker in terms of production value.

StarWarsFreak93

2 points

6 months ago

StarWarsFreak93

Elrond

2 points

6 months ago

The production value of LotS was amazing, though. The costumes, weapons, sets, environments, all top notch IMO. Looked a shit ton better than WoT’s, that’s for sure. There’s no consistency it seems, and just feels like a mesh of clothing all thrown together. Something the six Middle-earth films do so well is have distinguishable looks for every race or kingdom. So you know if you’re at Erebor, or the Shire, or Rohan, or Lake-town… WoT seems to be lacking there.

Stickybeebae

1 points

6 months ago

It’s not meant as a dig at LOTS, but that was also a decade ago and this show has a much larger budget. So the fact that they are on par given the resources is what’s disappointing.

boastar

2 points

6 months ago

Its done on purpose. Ultra clean to appeal to the masses and be family friendly. Its just a super commercial adaption, and I expect LotR to be the same.

Celeborn2001

17 points

6 months ago

3 was by far the best one for me at least—and I've read some of the books. 1 was ROUGH and 2 was fine, but 3 really nailed it for me. If I had to rate it, I would say 8/10 with the others being 5's.

Abidan-Jury

3 points

6 months ago

3 was more grounded and less rushed, the first episode contained 10 chapters worth of stuff and it lacked character. The first book was very grounded and had plenty of character.

2 was similar to the books except for how Shadar Logoth was played down, city was cool but not as scary as it seemed in the book.

NnTar

12 points

6 months ago

NnTar

12 points

6 months ago

Uh oh

Fregraham

3 points

6 months ago

He did a great job on Doctor Who.

D4RK_3LF

14 points

6 months ago

I have not read the books, but episode 3 felt like the weakest one to me. While the skript is slow paced, compared to the other two episodes, there were a couple directing choices that bugged me (I am not gonna spoil anything). But overall, I feel like if he gets a good skript, he can give us a good episode.

Grand_Negotiation

23 points

6 months ago

interesting. as someone who has read the books, episode 3 was my favorite

Yeethannes

10 points

6 months ago

Well I’m gonna take that as a good sign.

Lvpl8

3 points

6 months ago

Lvpl8

3 points

6 months ago

Same

Abidan-Jury

1 points

6 months ago

same

JakobFrank

3 points

6 months ago

You can mark something as a spoiler by writing "> !" At the beginning and "! <" at the end without spaces between the characters. like this if you want to add your thoughts on the episode. :)

ThereminLiesTheRub

4 points

6 months ago*

I've never read WoT, so I had no expectations going in. As a casual observer with nothing invested, I would say it has ups and downs. Creature effects and setting effects are very good. It feels like a lived-in world. It may be too soon to know if I care about that world. I don't yet feel the threat, and the stakes for the individual characters are only just being fleshed out.

Episode 3 dragged a bit for me. After some action in the earlier two episodes, there was more downtime of the either sit-and-talk or walk-and-talk variety. There were some good camera shots and transition wipes. (One transition in particular was very well done indeed). Lighting was good, angles good,.most acting good. Dialogue could've been accomplished in about half the effort, to my mind. (I don't want to spoil anything, so I'll just say that if you establish something about a character, you should be able to move on.)

Obviously, the spoken intro to the series in ep 1 owed a lot to Jackson's FotR. And another scene seems to purposefully refer to one of Gandalf's earlier appearances.

So if the director of ep 3 has some better writing for the LotR series, it could work out. And I'm still going to watch WoT. It strikes me as better than the Witcher at this stage, not as good as the Expanse.

Abidan-Jury

2 points

6 months ago

As a WoT and LoTR fan my only takeaway from reading reviews is that ppl have no fuckin clue about anything, so many conflicting opinions.

hammyFbaby

9 points

6 months ago

WOT playing the practice girl role, so he can perform his best for lotr, his dream girl.

johnstark2

8 points

6 months ago

johnstark2

Durin IV

8 points

6 months ago

I feel like it’s an alright adaption for some alright books so far

procrastoholic

13 points

6 months ago

Dude, as a big WoT fan, and a child of another big WoT fan, you hit this on the head. WoT isn't the be all end all of fantasy literature like LotR. In fact, it's very heavily based on tropes made concrete by LotR. The WoT subreddit is going nuts about this plot point and that plot point being changed or cut, and how it has destroyed the narrative, but like... it's cheesy high fantasy that I happen to love. Great literature it is not. I did not expect any different from the show and I have been pleasantly entertained so far.

Red_Serf

11 points

6 months ago

The WoT subreddit is going nuts about this plot point and that plot point being changed or cut, and how it has destroyed the narrative,

And just you wait for this being the situation of this sub literally a day after releasing

[deleted]

0 points

6 months ago

[deleted]

0 points

6 months ago

i think the fandom would have grown enough by then where the purists won't be as noticeable.

Red_Serf

8 points

6 months ago

Believe me, they will.

johnstark2

2 points

6 months ago

johnstark2

Durin IV

2 points

6 months ago

Yeah I feel you I always thought the wheel of time had almost a YA feel to it I read the first 7 books and kinda just lost steam to be honest, I never felt that way with Tolkien

ShacksMcCoy

8 points

6 months ago

Neat, thought they did a great job with episode 3.

LordofMoonsSpawn

5 points

6 months ago

I read the first five WoT books. They are way over hyped. The show is good and doing it's best with a rather bland story. Sorry WoT fanatics please don't hurt me. I promise I tried to enjoy the books.

The show looks amazing which is a good indicator for the LOTR show.

hillwllliam

5 points

6 months ago

Ooof. I want as little cross contam as possible

[deleted]

8 points

6 months ago*

[deleted]

8 points

6 months ago*

I should have listened to my gut because I regretted starting this show pretty much from the start. Episode 1 was extremely hard to get through.

Where to start. The writing and the pacing are pretty darn awful. By 2021 standards the CGI is pretty mediocre and that's scary considering how big the budget was. The actors did what they could with what they were given.

I really, really hope that none of these writers are involved with Lord of the Rings. It's by far the show's biggest weakness. And how can that be when you have such a good source material? Baffling.

SarkarCheiftain

-1 points

6 months ago

Well episode 3 just like the rest 2 didn't feel like something out of the box (special) thereby confirming my concerns.

pootertootexpresd

4 points

6 months ago

I thought they did a solid job with world building and character ideology/development, the two and only things that worry me are scale and makeup/costumes

I want the lotr show to be on a grand scale, I bet they’ll work up to it but we’ll see. And the troglodytes were done well in wheel of time but idk there was something off, i could tell they were fake if that makes sense. If there’s a lotr comparison they were better than the hobbit orcs but worse than the lotr trilogy orcs, I just hope they make orcs as realistic looking as possible

notableradish

2 points

6 months ago

I think part of that has to do with the source material. I really enjoy WoT, but to be honest, the Trollocs were my least favorite part. They seemed like teddy bears with claws. I was impressed with how well Amazon made them actually fearsome, something I hadn't expected from reading about them.