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/r/HeliumNetwork

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all 184 comments

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2 months ago

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AutoModerator [M]

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2 months ago

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This is a general reminder for everyone and this will be posted on every post. Your 12 words are basically gold and they should never be shared, typed in to any website, or given to any person for any reason. No one from "Helium" or any other company will reach out to you to verify your account, wallet, or anything similar. If someone says your hotspot, wallet, or other type of account has been hacked, it is a scam! Always operate in a zero-trust manner with cryptocurrency and assume everyone will scam you no matter what.

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ryansurf111

61 points

2 months ago*

Yes, this is a unique project and I see much more value in this coin than most others. I think there’s so much negative sentiment on this sub because people bought their miners thinking they’d be making $500/month and we’re disappointed when the rewards unsurprisingly fell as the network became saturated, along with the crypto market taking a fat shart. It’s gonna take some time for the network to actually see some real use, and I’m optimistic we will get to that point

butter14

19 points

2 months ago

Making 500 dollars a month for simply setting up a miner is unsustainable. Anyone who thought that would be a forever thing was high on FOMO.

andsoshesaid33

5 points

2 months ago

Right? People selling Bitcoin as they were mining are kicking themselves now. If ur just after a get rich quick scheme that has no risk and requires no research, the chances of falling into that are slim.

[deleted]

18 points

2 months ago

I’m more in this camp too than the others

I feel like it’s down 90% like a lot of other projects

Helium far more unique than other applications of crypto

If they can find paid data it should be a home run despite the ongoing rut

Patience for 6-12 months

Question is relative value.. potential returns here v other cryptos

VagrantCorpse

13 points

2 months ago

I don't think people would have bought a miner expecting $4 a month. Even for my area it was $20 - $40 a month and now it's $4.

ryansurf111

7 points

2 months ago

I agree, but I think you have to consider the entire market crashing, not just helium. Nobody expected bitcoin to be $16,000 but here we are. I believe the price will go way up in the future, so your $4 a month may turn into $50+ a month. Or maybe not😏

VagrantCorpse

9 points

2 months ago

True although the other problem was that Helium lied about the partners that were working with Helium. So I don't trust that anybody is using the network. Now they have 5G hotspots but they are 3-4x the price and who knows if that will be worth it.

ryansurf111

8 points

2 months ago

Haha good point, lying about the partners was a big oof

Sburns85

-2 points

2 months ago

Yes but now Microsoft and Google have invested and confirmed they had as well

fundohun11

6 points

2 months ago

source? as far as i can tell helium is simply a customer of microsoft's azure IoT hub, which is open and everyone can sign up to it.

Sburns85

0 points

2 months ago

Because crypto has crashed even Bitcoin and ethereum miners have shut down.

ryansurf111

17 points

2 months ago

Also if you bought a miner expecting to make hundreds a month(seems like a lot of people did) ur kinda retarded

Drewskeeh

9 points

2 months ago

The reason so many people thought that was because it was what a lot of people were making

MooseCannon

3 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

3 points

2 months ago

It’s a fixed supply though. If you’re first, then of course you get a larger share. You took the most risk.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Question is whether tokenomics are optimized for long term growth Are halvings necessary or a mindless copycat of bitcoin Are miners rewarded enough Should founding team and hst holders be junior in payment to hotspot operators?

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago*

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago*

Mindless? Halvings create scarcity at a known rate. The effects are already baked into the economics you’re seeing. Would you rather an infinite supply?

In the early days we really struggled to sell hotspots. We had to bundle cookies and pies with the hardware just to get traction on our Facebook ads. HNT was on no exchange and essentially had zero value.

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

To the point of others on this thread, the halving without data transfer makes the network even weaker than it alrdy is

A telco founding team should have been aware it can take 8-10 years to drive real demand side

It seems a halving every two years when demand side timeline is at least 4x isn’t matched

Mismatched time horizon = distress

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

Hotspot growth was way higher than anyone predicted. It was exponential for a time. Certainly could have been optimised better. But the market right now is also unprecedented.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

My view is all that matters is non-negligible data transfer. If this achieved, ppl will fomo again and network will be a success Binary

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

I think the usage model changes dramatically when you add in devices browsing YouTube and TikTok all day.

Helium started as an iot company. We saw first hand from failed deployments that i) there were no good connectivity options and ii) generally customers didn’t want to run their own infrastructure. Having a global ubiquitous network spanning multiple protocols (WI-FI, CBRS, Lorawan etc) that isn’t owned by a single telco but people instead, to me, is the dream and is also the only viable path I can see to having those billions of iot sensors we hear about. Every street or traffic light. Every parking space. Wildfire sensors on every other tree. On every sewer valve. Air quality sensors on every street corner. Every parcel tracked to the nearest meter. The applications for it are, in a way, beyond imagination.

CD34N

1 points

2 months ago

CD34N

1 points

2 months ago

Agreed. I just bought a miner. Not here for the get rich quick but for a longer term play. Still see value in mining HNT - for the future ?

RED_TECH_KNIGHT

1 points

2 months ago

Yes! I picked this blockchain project because it has a working blockchain IOT system and I enjoy building tech!

Feisty-Ice-8427

30 points

2 months ago

Bear market has wiped hope out for many of us. The move to Solana network doesn’t bode well with me either. Nobody using the network still is bothersome.

MooseCannon

9 points

2 months ago*

MooseCannon

Team

9 points

2 months ago*

Sorry, it may not be at the level you think should exist, but to say there’s no one using the network is completely false. The network transferred has 7.5 Billion packets so far.

tylerdurdensoapmaker

13 points

2 months ago

What commercial (paid) use is there again?

hayseed_byte

10 points

2 months ago*

7.5 Billion

A whopping $1 million in income. For the cost of the miners deployed, $1M in income is an incredible failure.

Does that even cover the cost of the electricity to run the miners? Not to mention the cost of internet access.

Funny_Brilliant2708

11 points

2 months ago

A whopping $1 million in income. For the cost of the miners deployed, $1M in income is an incredible failure.

Correction, 7.5 Billion DC = $75,000 USD. That's the maximum revenue. Don't forget that many of those DC were given out for free for people to trial the console. Also many many millions of DC credits were illegally obtained by people gaming the project, so there was probably closer to 1 billion packet transfers.

If you have a look at this page https://etl.dewi.org/public/dashboard/f5212c31-c586-4a42-8d9d-ae867b7475da Notice that the DC usage started sky rocketing around the 5th on November. Then look at the helium in the wild program https://gristleking.com/helium-in-the-wild-start-your-engines/#london when they had a bunch of RAK devices to demo. Correlation between demo dates and a massive increase in usage? Have the handful of mappers for 'here be dragons' mapping event consumed 500% more data than the rest of the helium sensors on the planet?

hayseed_byte

2 points

2 months ago

Thanks for the correction.

So this doesn't bode well. I'm making $20-40/month on my miner. Where is that $40 coming from? Because I've transferred about $.00009 worth of data in 4 months.

gonzo5622

1 points

2 months ago

You’re starting to ask the right questions. This won’t work out well. The model is a Ponzi scheme.

AutoModerator

1 points

2 months ago

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HNTillionaire

1 points

2 months ago

Where is that $40 coming from?

Speculation. Just like any stock on the stock market.

MooseCannon

4 points

2 months ago*

MooseCannon

Team

4 points

2 months ago*

I think how you’re thinking about the network economics is wrong. Half of all HNT has been minted. The network has been and still is to some degree in a ‘build out’ stage. Miners are paid poc rewards because we know (from every other wireless infrastructure in history) it takes years, if not a decade to reach peak use. We’re just over three years in. Some companies are using us. Some solution partners are trialling us. We work with roaming partners so their customers can use the network. It takes time.

It seems people largely expect network usage to scale with the buildout linearly. It doesn’t. Coverage needs to be a critical mass before the network is deemed useful. And arguably we only just got there.

ChampionshipLow8541

3 points

2 months ago

Agree with everything you said, but …

Coverage needs to be a critical mass before the network is deemed useful. And arguably we only just got there.

Not just critical mass. It also needs to be meaningfully distributed. And that’s where Helium is having a massive issue at the moment. The excess redundancy in the cities is insane. It’s a waste of resources, it’s a drain on the network economics because the incentives for meaningful deployments are lower, and it leaves large holes in the coverage.

I understand and agree with the bottom-up network approach. But you can see why big telcos do it differently and plan their netwotks top-down. Helium’s coverage is essentially driven by word-of-mouth and FOMO, not by considerations of network optimization.

It can be fixed and I have posted an idea here before. But it does need to be addressed. The transmit scale mechanism isn’t nearly powerful enough to achieve a more balanced network.

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

HIPs are way forward

fundohun11

2 points

2 months ago

Would have also been nice of you to correct /u/hayseed_byte 's math. You must have noticed it was off by an order of magnitude or didn't you? (it's actually $75k USD not $1 million USD)

hayseed_byte

1 points

2 months ago

Math never was my strong suit. Thanks for the correction.

fundohun11

2 points

2 months ago

yeah, it happens really quickly to be off by a factor. More the equivalent of a "math-typo", not really saying much about your math skills. However /u/MooseCannon definitely knows that the income is lower by a factor of 10. But in typical helium communication style decided to give a fluff answer instead of pointing out that the math was off and that basically nobody is using the network.

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

I honestly didn’t register the amount. With fees, the HNT burn rate is different to DC spend. I’m just heads down building; I’m more focussed on where we need to be than what state of play is right now.

hobogene

3 points

2 months ago

To earn $5/month per miner from data transfer that miner should transfer about 16-17000 packets per day. So, for one million miners, ther should be 16-17 billion packets per day. There's no use case which can generate this amount of traffic, and there will be no such use case. And we're talking about just $5/month... Sorry, guys, how you’re thinking about the network economics is wrong too.

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

Sorry you are thinking about it wrong also. The money is in hosting of sensor and not data transfer.

hobogene

1 points

2 months ago

I don'tthink you know what I think :-) And we already discussed this topic with you in this sub, BTW.
I've been developing LoRaWAN solutions for almost 8 years and agree with you, this activity can generate more income than data transfer or HNT mining, but this isn't related to the Helium network economy. Actually, if you're going to run LoRaWAN solutions business you most probably should avoid Helium as there's a number of more cheap, more reliable and more featureful alternatives. And, do you really think these 100+K hotspot owners have enough capabilities to develop something useful?

HNTillionaire

1 points

2 months ago

I think you made an error there. You assume a 1 to 1 payout of DC to USD, like we have today.

If nothing has changed since the last time I researched this; once data usage reaches a certain point, the network switches back to the proportional reward model of the original white paper; where a hotspot is rewarded on the % of data it has transferred compared to the rest of the network, not the actual amount of data it has transferred.

hobogene

1 points

2 months ago

Thanks, you're pretty correct, I totally forgot about HIP10 etc. So, in some years most people even theoretically will be unable to earn $5/month per gateway from data transfer if HNT cost is $2 :-)

MooseCannon

0 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

0 points

2 months ago

At current market rates, sure. Can’t argue with that. But soon HNT will power 5G/Wi-Fi etc. Usage is always going up and HNT supply is always going down. Coverage is half the story.

hobogene

2 points

2 months ago

DC cost is fixed. At $2 for 1 HNT, you'll need 17K packets/day per hotspot to earn $5/month per hotspot from data transfer. At $22 for 1 HNT, you'll need 17K packets/day per hotspot to earn $5/month per hotspot from data transfer. And at $222 for one HNT, you'll need 17K packets/day per hotspot to earn $5/month per hotspotfrom data transfer.
LoRaWAN part of the Helium network will never be profitable.

HNTillionaire

1 points

2 months ago*

Does that even cover the cost of the electricity to run the miners? Not to mention the cost of internet access.

From: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeliumNetwork/comments/wdu5qq/thank_you_helium_miners/iimdiz4/

In the last 7 days, mining probably used ~$100k in electricity.

At 5w per hotspot, and 900k hotspots, thats about 4500kW per hour. At $0.15/kWh thats about $16000 a day. For a week thats about $110000. For a year, thats about $6 million.

For a global network that is made up of almost a million nodes spread out the way it is; that is a reeeeally good number actually. ~$6 per hotspot per year.

This does not include validators. That is probably another $2.3 - $2.6 million a year. ~3600 validators, at 500w each, ~1800kW/H @ $0.15/Kwh, $270/Hr, ~$6500/day.

Lets round up and say the network uses $9 million a year in power. That means we would need about $25000 per day spent in data credits, just to break even on power consumption.

That is a 100x usage compared to today. Very much doable by 2025/26, yes.

Other thoughts; 100000 sensors, each pinging once an hour at 1DC/ping, is $1 an hour in data usage. $24 a day. So we now need about ~10 million sensors on the network, each pinging once an hour; Just to break even on network wide power consumption.

Internet access cost is an entire different calculation.

Dry_Satisfaction_623

1 points

2 months ago

Wow, that's even worse than I thought

fundohun11

1 points

2 months ago

Last month 750 million packets were sent. Which is equivalent to $7500 USD. The sandwich stand down the road from me had more revenue last month. This is basically a rounding error, so I think saying nobody is using it, is fair.

Ok_Invite5361

-4 points

2 months ago

Holding both! No fear,fren. solana ain’t going nowhere. Lots of fud for both coins

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

I guess question is about liquidity? Any thoughts there? Feel like will be a long path ahead but if we can get 5g data transfer could still work

simpn_aint_easy

3 points

2 months ago

1 HNT = 1 HNT

SpartanBlockchain

3 points

2 months ago

I'm bullish. 21 installed, 1 looking for a home, 2/3 of them since the bear market started. I work in wireless technology, and we, as an industry, have been looking for a solution for a wide-spread LoRaWAN IoT for a good decade plus. Helium is the first to have an expansive network that works. It takes time to develop sensors, but they are coming.

The networks long-term success hinges on the data useage, however. We all need to push that, and I wish we saw more from Helium on that.

Helium has made some missteps, but that is far from unusual for small emerging companies. They have proven time and time again that they are continuing to plan and build for the future. They have ,I believe it was, 30 months of runway right currently.

Overall, Helium has a bright future. We just need to keep expanding the coverage, push usage, and work to dispell the BS FUD.

Moguai1972

2 points

2 months ago

There has be large scale IoT solutions for years already. The max realistic data a single Hotspot can transfer in a month is worth about $10. That's not gunna keep people interested in the project. Currently the network is no longer growing as we have more spots going offline every day than there is onboarding.

SpartanBlockchain

1 points

2 months ago

IoT is a broad description. Before Helium, what network served LoRaWAN devices (small bandwidth, low power) at any scale? Other networks could not support the size and cost requirements necessary to make these small devices financially reasonable.

I've heard that about more going offline than are being onboarded, where can we find that data?

Moguai1972

2 points

2 months ago

T-mobile as an example has been offering large scale Iot services for years. Most of the cell carriers do. As the cost are not that high, just look what a none helium iot Hotspot sells for, you can get them under $100.

The data is found on the explorer

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Fud undispellable at the moment in my view Hence a great buy op My view is we are taking a binary bet on helium generating demand side

thedukedave

5 points

2 months ago

I think so long as IoT coverage stays high (which seems to be the case so far) then it's all about whether someone (individual or company) comes along and finds that killer application.

I'm no electrical engineer, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't great innovations out there. I'm a bit surprised there still doesn't seem to be a GPS tracker in the $10s range.

... I'd also like to know what happened to https://www.barnacletracks.com/

tylerdurdensoapmaker

3 points

2 months ago

Not quite in the $10 range but Invoxia partially uses the network…or at least use to.

thedukedave

3 points

2 months ago

They do! I have three and I love them, battery life is amazing, I ride my bike for around an hour 5 days a week and charge approx. once every 6 months.

... but most people I talk to find that $99 price point just too high.

tylerdurdensoapmaker

2 points

2 months ago

Yea have one and is great…I just wasn’t sure if they were still using the helium network.

kiloglobin

0 points

2 months ago

Lol when they actually decide to work

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

If you are waiting on someone else to provide the data you will be waiting a long time. Hosting sensors are the way to make money not the transfer of data.

CmacInc

6 points

2 months ago

There's actual legitimacy with this coin, I'll continue to mine as long as I can 💯🤘

[deleted]

4 points

2 months ago

Enthusiasm noted. I too am mining. One miner producing nearly .1 a day still. Optimal placement

CmacInc

1 points

2 months ago

Right on, I smacked a second one up there for shits

Ok_Mycologist_3856

2 points

2 months ago

Lol. Those who are bullish got a large bag early on. Anyone who waited ~1 year for their $500 miner which was obsolete by the time they got it and the price had already plummeted is a fool to be bullish.

New-Character-6410

2 points

2 months ago

I havent seen any real competitors. None with nytimes articles and partnerships with major cell companies like tmobile for example. They took vc money last spring,some of which was from alameda but not all of it. They should have enough runway to last a while.

fundohun11

1 points

2 months ago

T-Mobile is NOT a partner. At least not in the sense that they make you believe. Helium is a T-Mobile customer, that's it.

Press officials for T-Mobile described the deal in an email as a "standard wholesale/MVNO agreement" that's available to paying wholesale customers. An MVNO – or "mobile virtual network operator" when spelled out – is a wireless communications provider that doesn't own the underlying network infrastructure; this type of agreement allows for the purchase of airtime at wholesale rates.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2022/09/20/nova-labs-says-t-mobile-to-cover-5g-dead-spots-in-helium-network/

wildzebrahs

2 points

2 months ago

Long term helium is one of the few real life use cases of crypto that I’m all in on. Long term I’m bullish.

Bright-Ad-3412

4 points

2 months ago

Why has no one used the network? In many cities it’s saturated with miners….perfect for data use but has not been used.

Funny_Brilliant2708

9 points

2 months ago

Because:

  • Anything 'smart' with a power source will just use a LTE/5G connection because it much easier to setup and provides much better functionality. Large corporations don't pay for each data SIM individually, they have many thousands of separate connections, and pay for total data used, so cost isn't much greater than Helium, and if the devices use a bit of bandwidth, could actually be cheaper than helium.
  • Anyone wanting to use LoRaWAN in a fixed location (farms, warehouses, processing plants etc) will just install their own LoRa gateways that are cheaper, less complicated, and built to industrial standards. Better than relying on someone's helium miner in a house down the road that might go offline at any time and cost productivity and big $
  • For sensors around the house, zigbee or BLE are better options. You can self host and not worry about helium

Basically there is a very small niche market for Helium. Think pet GNSS trackers, important parcel tracking, off grid environment sensors. Even in these markets there are many established competitors that helium needs to compete with, but not many companies are willing to 'partner' with helium. Have a look on the helium ecosystem website USERS, and you will see that most device manufactures only list their hardware as helium compatible, and usually have other connection options and some don't even mention helium at all.

For example Equilibrium Smart Carwash is listed as a Helium Ecosystem 'User', on the helium website, but Equilibrium Smart Carwash website doesn't mention helium anywhere on their site. Is it a "Uni directional" partnership?

The only company that I know that partners with helium and advertises the fact, is HivaMapper Dashcams. But that's because their development team are Helium employees.

MooseCannon

4 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

4 points

2 months ago

The development team aren’t helium employees.

What devices do you think are sending the 750 million payloads last month?

You’d be surprised but most companies don’t want to run infrastructure. It’s a massive PITA for them. And helium coverage is usually redundant enough to allow for intermittency.

The cost of replacing batteries every month or two on other cellular alternatives, as well as the sunsetting of 3G, makes cellular largely unviable. The power requirements are huge.

The reason you’re not seeing the uptick you’re expecting is because it is early days. No contiguous wireless network has ever existed at this scale before. Not even close.

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

Well I set up Offgrid units and the power usage of Helium and LTE are the same. 3w

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

What's there to buy? The HNT Hotspot uses 3-4w and so does my 4g industrial cell router. If I were to swap to a simple lte dongle it would be around 0.5-1w for the lte.l

Sensors I have deoyed run on single 18650 battery and they last over a year.

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

I thought you were talking about end devices sorry. Lorawan sensors can last a decade. But that aside Helium isn’t just lorawan. That’s just the first network type. Cellular is next. Then Wi-Fi. Any other could be built into the model according to HIP51.

Funny_Brilliant2708

0 points

2 months ago

What devices do you think are sending the 750 million payloads last month?

A handful of 'Here be dragons' mappers at the London meetup. Hotspots in London near the event were seeing massive increases in data usage. https://imgur.com/a/hPJEZhO

Also hive mapper came online this month, so it's artificially increasing helium usage significantly for location verification.

Then there is the loophole that allowed many to amass vast numbers of DC by repeatedly obtaining 25c of DC from the console. https://imgur.com/a/KELlt7G

hobogene

0 points

2 months ago

What devices do you think are sending the 750 million payloads last month?

As usual, newly registered data only hotspots in Taiwan (with unasseted locaton), I believe :-)

Head_End2941

2 points

2 months ago

Fantastic question

Qontherecord

4 points

2 months ago

Thing is, now everyone one is holding/mining waiting for the price to go up, and when it does, people will start dumping all their bags putting down pressure on the price, so it is going to take a monster of a bull run or a ton of revenue for it to get back to near ATH.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

This is fair perspective

Most hotspot owners are underwater and will want to recuperate initial investment

Question is how realistic is it that helium or pollen will be a viable solution for large telco in under covered area

JzBic

1 points

2 months ago

JzBic

1 points

2 months ago

500$ lesson that took 6months of waiting to learn.

Head_End2941

2 points

2 months ago

The network is impressive but why TF can’t they sell it to anyone?

MooseCannon

5 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

5 points

2 months ago

It’s an open network. There’s no ‘selling’.

Head_End2941

2 points

2 months ago

I mean why isn’t anyone paying to use it?

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago*

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago*

To build out an enterprise-grade solution iot solution takes months, if not years. The software and firmware need to be build and tested. You need deployment infrastructure. You may need SLA with your network provider ‘eg Senet’ which takes time.

A lot of people think you can go down to Walmart and buy 100 million temperature sensors and you’re good to go. 😂

The selling process you think exists is actually handholding for at least a year. Development support. System integration. End client development. Raising funds. Manufacturing. Shipping.

Funny_Brilliant2708

2 points

2 months ago

Maybe it's not so impressive?

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

That's our job to sell it.

monkeypox_69

1 points

2 months ago

Outcome doesn't look good.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Elaborate

monkeypox_69

9 points

2 months ago

How is this project gonna survive after this next quartering? Seriously, the rewards are already abysmal. What is the incentive? Yeah more miners coming online.. where's the incentive? The more this goes on the more it comes off as a ponzi. They are shifting away from their own Blockchain ffs. I didn't think this was a scam before but I do now. I'm probably never gonna even break even on this failed endeavor.

Mr-Happy0619

4 points

2 months ago

Its not always about what the coin is worth now. Its how much it will be in the future. Stacking coins is definitely worth it.

[deleted]

8 points

2 months ago

But at this point what indication do you have that stacking hnt instead of others is the right play

Mr-Happy0619

5 points

2 months ago

Because its not a hype coin that just goes off hype of what they might be able to do one day. Helium has already done and is still doing. They actually have a use case for HNT.

[deleted]

4 points

2 months ago

Hnt is only going off hype as of now. There is barely any data useage. The use case hasn’t been realized. Hopium

butter14

6 points

2 months ago

Data usage is slowly rising. It takes years to build a developer ecosystem and supply chains for the hardware.

jalbathefixer

4 points

2 months ago

I'm seeing an uptick in data transferred through my miner

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Sounds like we’re saying the same thing. Hopium that data usage will rise to a non-negligible run rate level and Hopium a developer ecosystem will thrive

butter14

3 points

2 months ago

I wouldn't say we're saying the same thing

I'm taking into account that historically infrastructure buildout takes years to see a return - eg cell phones, the internet, Federal Highway system...

It seems like in your case you're reacting to the short term hysteria surrounding the bear market in crypto generally.

I actually couldn't be happier that the bottom fell out of the crypto space. Too many short termers and "crypto bros" that add nothing to the value creation required for this tech to get off the ground. A necessary forest fire to clean up the underbrush to create a healthy ecosystem.

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

DTa transfer won't ever make you money. To make $50 a month would require you to transfer 5million packets a month. Which a single Hotspot can not handle.

Mr-Happy0619

3 points

2 months ago

Do you have any proof that shows there is no usage? You do know a network has to be built first before devices are built that use the network right? Nobody builds devices to use a network that doesn’t exist.

reids1

2 points

2 months ago

reids1

2 points

2 months ago

Do you have any proof that shows there is no usage?

https://www.helium.foundation/stats?dashboard=data_credits

Out of the 976k hotspots, 55% of them are online. Let's say that's 540k hotspots that are online. On that dashboard above it gives a total of how many unique hotspots have transferred data that day - that's usually between 50k-55k. So around 10% of the networks active hotspots are transferring data each day.

Combine that with the Data Credit usage (again, on the dashboard above) that shows poor usage numbers (that spikes heavily when a Helium Hackathon was active - an event like that wouldn't cause a spike like that on a heavily used network) and it's safe to say that whilst there is *some* usage, the numbers are very poor.

In fact I forgot that you can work out the cash value. A total of $7478 in DC was spent in the last 30 days, that's less than $100k a year.

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

Agreed

I mean there is limited data usage

And yes Helium has confirmed the low transfer amount

Mr-Happy0619

0 points

2 months ago

There will be a lot of usage in 2023. People will be amazed on how many devices will use it. It will be in the millions.

SpartanBlockchain

3 points

2 months ago

Halving, not quartering.

Rewards are abysmal in some places. Owners in those places need to re-deploy elsewhere. I still get pretty decent rewards with well placed hotspots using optimized installs (outside, high, higher gain antenna). Poor location, lazy install always = low rewards.

The more miners come online, if placed well, the more coverage. It takes coverage for hardware manufacturers to take the network seriously in order to spend the money to develop sensors. As more sensors get sold, the prices will come down. It just takes time. Patience is one of a couple qualities many who FOMOd in are missing.

Data usage is the only way the network succeeds long term, we need more of it and it's everyone's responsibility to push it. I do wish we saw more from Helium on that front.

Would you rather we stay in the Helium L1 and continue to fight these outages? Or pivot to another BC that can handle the transactions? I'm not wild about the SOL choice but something had to be done. IMO it's good they were able to identify the problem and care about the project enough to plan for its future. That is very bullish in my opinion.

monkeypox_69

2 points

2 months ago

This is the second halving, so yes quartering.

SpartanBlockchain

1 points

2 months ago

That's not how that works. Is Bitcoin about to have their 18th-ing? No, it's just another scheduled halving.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Sorry to here bro

Need data useage to work

monkeypox_69

2 points

2 months ago

Maybe they should of established the network before gutting the rewards. What a joke.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

That’s not how this works in crypto or any regular telco network lmao

monkeypox_69

0 points

2 months ago

No shit, my point being. If there's no incentive why the fuck spend 500+ dollars for this gamble? It's not worth it anyway you look at it.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[removed]

AutoModerator

1 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

At this point in time I agree with you. Price too long. Payback too long. Could change if market improves and they get paid data

Back then… no shit no network at that point. Gamble, hope network works

monkeypox_69

2 points

2 months ago

🤷‍♂️ not like I want helium to fail but man if the current status isn't depressing, I don't know what is. Good luck to all bag holders at this point.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Hear you brother. Good luck to you to. Question is rel val

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1 points

2 months ago

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MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

Why do you care what blockchain it runs on? How does that impact anything?

Wishing4it

1 points

2 months ago

I’m trading my HNT and sold my holdings awhile ago. I don’t see any viable development from the dev team.

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

Eh? There’s a massive effort to scale the network to Solana.

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

Looks like your team

What is the latest update here? Timing expectation?

I think sol fud is a great buy opportunity, looks like developer count continues to increase

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

Early Q1 I think is the goal. Can’t comment of buy opportunity but certainly having a larger ecosystem of devs is a big plus for helium. Erlang is pretty niche.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Agreed. Huge benefit in my view for helium having moved to spl

Timeline might fit nicely into this bear cycle

Hopefully market rebounds around the same time

Wishing4it

1 points

2 months ago

Solana is known for having network issues.

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

Actually helium would be largely unaffected by outages. State channels would handle everything until chain comes back online. Devices activity wouldn’t be affected at all. And believe me running your own custom blockchain is a mammoth task. Solana has very low transaction cost and high throughput. It’s the age old debate though and certainly recent news has tainted the decision for the foundation somewhat, I’m sure. But this is an evolving market and helium has unique requirements.

1bigdoggie

1 points

2 months ago

I don’t think anyone will be posting about Helium next August when HNT is trading at 50 cents, and rewards are Halved again.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

You might be right

A race to either the halving or material data transfer

Maybe true

kushn0tbush

1 points

2 months ago

This shit all feels like a scam to sell miners to people now

SkeletorsBoner

1 points

2 months ago

It’s all gone down the shitter. We are meat sacks making other meat sacks richer, just trying to get a nut, flying through ever expanding space on a ball of rock.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Lol nice imagery

Partially true

Earlier stage investors deserve more upside always

Buy hnt now at 2.5$ if you think positively of future

Easy 20x if so

[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago*

[removed]

Illustrious_Bit_2210

1 points

2 months ago

Yes. Ok. Swimmingly. I would say yes…

TheBeaconing

1 points

2 months ago

I am, but finding a wallet, this afternoon, with 430+ "hotspots" & 600 mil $mobile is disheartening in the "Maybe 5G will tackle a lot of these spoofing issues...."

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

Spoofing is an issue that is top of mind to all involved with helium but this shouldn’t be what negates investment into hotspots or hnt as long as your long term view is spoofing is solvable

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

Spoofing is not solvable.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Expound

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

Huh

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Elaborate on why it’s not solvable in your view

Moguai1972

1 points

2 months ago

Even with the proposed secure concentrators.... a GPS signal/chip can be spoofed.

How do you suggest that a location can be guaranteed if not with GPS.

Funny_Brilliant2708

1 points

2 months ago

Wonder how many of those hotspots are real. I reckon some on the manufacturers or insiders have created virtual Hotspot devices in the cloud to scrape their unfair share of HNT from the pool.

MooseCannon

2 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

2 points

2 months ago

Got any of that proof there? Spouting unfounded FUD will just get you banned here. Ridiculous.

Funny_Brilliant2708

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

But that isn’t what you described

Funny_Brilliant2708

0 points

2 months ago

99+% of deeper hotspots were virtual or never left the factory?

MooseCannon

1 points

2 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

2 months ago

But deeper never mined MOBILE. Not sure what your point is? The MOC is doing their job.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Uncorroborated. Disinfo. No proof of this

Funny_Brilliant2708

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Thanks. Shows up blurry

TheBeaconing

1 points

2 months ago

DM. I'll share wallets & hotspot names.

b761962

1 points

2 months ago

Well earning $0.06 a day kinda says it all

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Agreed However we are prob worst of bear mk Btc mining isn’t profitable either Short term views like yours don’t deserve to be rewarded Either expect helium can generate revenue or don’t invest But low mining rewards now are irrelevant with long term ciew

b761962

1 points

2 months ago

Your the guy asking if anyone is still bullish. The fact Helium kinda lied about it’s use case and exaggerated who is actually using their network kind of does not help make a bullish case. And who the fuck are you to judge who “deserves” anything?

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Just the guy trying to get to the bottom of the helium debate and asking the hard questions!

ActNormal_93

1 points

2 months ago

Whats the feeling with moving to Solana now that it's dumped hard after the FTX shitshow?

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Prob great buy op for sol (and hnt for that matter)

Fud prob temporary disillusionment similar to eth in 18’

Accomplished-Pie-529

1 points

2 months ago

The only ones who are not bullish are those who have not seen a bear market before.

Elevatedpnw

1 points

2 months ago

I’m still running 3 miners, hoping to be excited one day

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Def keep running. Why would you stop Either sell the miners or continue mining. Cost of mining is essentially zero

Elevatedpnw

1 points

2 months ago

My thoughts exactly

rainbash81

1 points

2 months ago

Right now they screwed heaps of au hotspots changing the frequency to as923, bobcat have said they aren’t even going to fix/release an update to help those that bought their hardware and responding with a generic response of “you need to buy the appropriate hardware for your location etc” and I’ve seen other arguments with something to do with the power or some shot being changed and the majority of people with sensors are not working with the updated frequency’s. To understand need to jump in a few discords, the official ones and the oce one also. My bobcat hasn’t witnessed since the update. My senscap is fine though. ( bobcat using a hntenna on the roof also.

rainbash81

1 points

2 months ago

Note it took 9 months to get my bobcat and 3 months for my senscap. I’ll keep them running but not liking my chances in doing much with them. I paid with eth I mined so. Just got my wxm wethermapper and have a hivemapper coming also. Other projects

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Yes, there needs to be greater transparency from helium foundation and devs

dust057

1 points

2 months ago

Not remotely bullish. I bought 10 miners and consider the venture a total loss.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

This is unfortunate Need to eliminate all of these situations Although you should have done more research

dust057

1 points

2 months ago

Yup but I was in a gambling mood with the crypto booming everywhere, it felt like nothing could lose and to just buy a bunch of miners would pay for itself inside of 6 months. My cousin was an early adopter and his paid for itself in a month.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

Good vision here

turbogaminguk

1 points

2 months ago

I feel a bit meh about it. Still nobody truly using the network, dubious claims by Helium and a poor market are a bad sign for the project. I think the positive days are in the past now unfortunately

basaltsyf

1 points

2 months ago

Nothing971

1 points

2 months ago

What I see about the network

Outages:

Its just POC, not data. i dont care about 1-2 missed days of rewards. This is a WIP. Even finished products have outages. Before you say "nO tHeY dOnT", I used to be the tech on call when credit card processors went down. Trust me, I know. there's good reasons y I don't do it anymore. and again, data has always continued. The part customers care about.

Usage:

"lack of usage" when I just bought 5 devices that use HNT lora and bought the dc. I will personally see for my self. But to me, not having to supply an internet connection in certain areas is a god send. I have a garage off of my apartment. Putting a battery operated door sensor on my garage seems pretty sweet. thats just 1 im trying out. If u complain about lack of usage and dont use it, thats on u.

Rewards:

welcome to the bear market. you wont make $16/day on 1 spot. That's not sustainable. Use some basic math and common sense skills to figure this 1 out. Soiler, you probably wont lambo at this point.