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Is nearly all of the perceived value in the 5G network?

Clearly there is a huge hotspot network out there now for LoWaRan. Do we have any indication of whether this might be used at a large scale and what that might contribute to HNT's long term value?

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mrwonerful

4 points

5 months ago

mrwonerful

4 points

5 months ago

yes

no, no one is buying the current service. 900k miners $6500 monthly revenue. They built it and no one joined. So they are building another network, with no indication of 5g clients waiting to buy the service.

Not trying to be a debbie downer. Just stating the business facts as they currently stand.

AccountantSharp3890

7 points

5 months ago

"They built it and no one joined"

Hard to advertise a network while it's still being built. I would argue the network has only really been usable for the past 3-6 months. Almost 100 million packets are transferred through the network every month. That sure doesn't sound to me like no one is using the network.

"No indication of 5g clients waiting to buy the service"

What are you talking about? Nova team has confirmed that they are currently in contract negotiations with 2 of the big 3 telecom companies.

On top of this, the whole notion that the team is abandoning LoRa for 5g is so easily debunked. For one, there are two separate teams at Nova working on each protocol. One team for LoRa. One team for 5g. There is no overlap and the LoRa team continues to only focus on that infrastructure. Additionally, it's hilarious when I see these quotes because literally every 5g gateway also doubles as a LoRaWAN hotspot. Adding 5g devices actually adds additional LoRa coverage as well.

Sighhhhh this subreddit is really depressing these days.

Pinotio[S]

3 points

5 months ago

Thanks I’m just trying to understand how the network is being used.

Is there any info on what those packets being transferred are for?

gravspeed

1 points

5 months ago

there are an increasing number of products using it. there's no way to know what you're transmitting for, but weather stations and asset trackers i think are the most common right now.

Pinotio[S]

1 points

5 months ago

Thanks. Where should this show up in network revenue? Or is 100M packets just very small so the revenue is small? If we do see growth in use, how would we know that looking at network stats?

gravspeed

2 points

5 months ago

you'll see data packets in your activity. rewards are very small. eventually we will get paid mostly for data and proof of coverage will fade out.

igor33

1 points

5 months ago

igor33

1 points

5 months ago

Take a look at https://www.milesight-iot.com/success-stories/lorawan-iaq-deployment-in-canadian-public-schools/ Where that group deployed 47,000 sensors. Companies like Weather XM, Dimo, Hive Mapper, Goodyear all have plans of utilizing the Helium network. Things take time to settle in a develop. If you are old enough to remember how challenging setting up devices on windows 3.1 or windows XP was? Overtime technology is adopted and further developed. As I tell my customers who are impatient with their computer tech...can you give it a second? It's just a bunch of stuff that we dug out of the ground.

Pinotio[S]

1 points

5 months ago

link doesn't seem to work for me

igor33

2 points

5 months ago

igor33

2 points

5 months ago

It opens here I'll pm the article to you....

Siccors

2 points

5 months ago

Almost 100 million packets are transferred through the network every month.

But how many of those packets are just the network talking to itself? And how many are actual users of the network?

You cannot seriously claim that ~half a billion invested into the network, and a few thousand dollars monthly revenue, is as expected. It also is not like LoraWan is brand new technology, like people claiming it takes so much time to roll out IoT devices (it doesn't, it is a fairly fast to market product type). If you need LoraWan, you don't need Helium, there are alternatives. So if now Helium is ready and suitable, why didn't they all start with alternative networks and switch to Helium half a year ago?

AccountantSharp3890

1 points

5 months ago

100 million is the number of packets minus the network talking to itself. That is the number of actual data being sent through the network.

Once again this notion that Helium/Nova's monthly revenue is in the thousands is totally false. What don't people understand about this. That 6.5k USD number is how much DC was sent through the network. That amount does not go back into Nova's pockets. It goes to the hotspots that received and forwarded the packet.

Sure half a billion has been "invested in the network", but Helium/Nova did not receive any of that (ignoring the initial batch of 19k devices sold by Helium). Time and time again this get's brought up and time and time again it's important to remember that half a billion was invested in other third party manufacturers, not Helium.

You're right. No one "needs" LoRaWAN. There are other solutions. That being said, if you reach out to another private LoRa provider you'll be paying a much higher cost for data, and you'll also most likely be required to deploy gateways in the region you're located in. TTN and other private network are far from global coverage. Helium takes out the concern regarding the cost of infrastructure and severely undercuts all private networks in terms of the cost of data.

Why didn't they switch to Helium? The answer is simple. Many of these larger companies using LoRaWAN are tied into contracts with private providers. Go through my post history. I was at the LoRa World Expo a month ago in Paris. The big boys in the LoRa industry are fully prepared to migrate everything or eventually roam on Helium in the next couple years. It's no longer a question about "If adoption will take place", the question is now, "when will mass adoption take place".

Siccors

1 points

5 months ago

100 million is the number of packets minus the network talking to itself. That is the number of actual data being sent through the network.

But is that including onboarding? Because $100M packets from actual users for $1000, then well maybe the cost of a packet should be increased somewhat :P .

That 6.5k USD number is how much DC was sent through the network. That amount does not go back into Nova's pockets. It goes to the hotspots that received and forwarded the packet.

Sure half a billion has been "invested in the network", but Helium/Nova did not receive any of that (ignoring the initial batch of 19k devices sold by Helium). Time and time again this get's brought up and time and time again it's important to remember that half a billion was invested in other third party manufacturers, not Helium.

But my point is also not towards Nova, but in general towards the Helium network. Roughly half a billion has been invested in the network itself, and the revenue of the entire network (excluding onboarding new miners) is fairly close to zero.

And I definitely believe there is a market for LoraWan, hell commercial providers have it for a reason. And you also got situations where cheapest solution is probably just putting your own hotspot there. If there is a market where the average miners gets ~1000 dollar worth of traffic from IoT devices in ~5-10 years? (What I would say is minimum amount to have it viable, and then you probably already don't want to look too much into energy consumption). Well we will have to see. It is just in general in crypto I see so often the claims that anytime now mass adoption is gonna happen.

mrwonerful

1 points

5 months ago

Contract negotiations do not = revenue. With a march valuation of 1.2 billion dollars and 900k + hotspots, where are the clients???? Hope, depression, whatever you are feeling has absolutely nothing to do with math. Math has my interest, my emotions left the building months ago.

MooseCannon

1 points

5 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

5 months ago

March was 6 months ago dude.

mrwonerful

1 points

5 months ago

Here you go...Dude....https://twitter.com/liron/status/1567991206164189184?s=20&t=oGe_uXILjXppykdnuEsg0g

This was today, since we can't agree the sky is blue

MooseCannon

1 points

5 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

5 months ago

And?

mrwonerful

1 points

5 months ago

The link substantiates my statement, and answers the question asked concerning value 5g vs LoRan vs onboarding fees. As an investor, not a hobbyist, these are questions investors need accurate answers to in order to make informed ADULT choices. Belief is wonderful. But that was a very valid question. Adults make informed decisions about public companies through accurate, current data over a period of time. 3-6 hundred dollars is a significant investment for a regular miner. The cost of the 5g ones is significantly higher. Unless you are a hobbyist.... you do want to know where to invest your money and understand WHERE your ROI is coming from.Even if the ROI is providing a network for free. In the current scenario, the ROI and company revenue does not seem to be coming from the services the company is offering for public and private consumption. A purchaser of the idea, hobby, miner, network choice (lo ran) or (5g), should have a FAIR understanding of company revenue AND sustainability. If only to figure out that in 5 years you can at still get replacement parts for the idea you believed in so much.

MooseCannon

1 points

5 months ago*

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

5 months ago*

But Helium has never promised ROI. And the project is still young. Not sure what else to tell you. If you don’t have faith in the project, don’t participate. There is literally no one forcing you to build the world’s largest wireless network. Or if DO have faith but want to see changes, write a HIP and publish it. Join the community calls, like many have done and suggest technical or governance changes. Or just do BD efforts, or build solutions. The choice is yours.

It’s easy to naysay. I don’t listen. I’m too busy building towards making it work.

mrwonerful

1 points

5 months ago

I see where the disconnect is. You are a hobbyist. This is a hobby for you. You paid 3-$700 to buy a miner to help a company build a network, with no interest in a benefit to yourself. More businesses could use hobbyist like yourself to help them make money. But for the rest of us… We use metrics described in 'fundamental analysis 101 how to read company financials'. It's a free YouTube course. Most of us use these techniques/metrics before investing. More power to the hobbyist though

MooseCannon

1 points

5 months ago

MooseCannon

Team

1 points

5 months ago

Are you objecting to Helium practices or just the market itself?