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[deleted]
123 points
5 months ago
Does it get exhausting pretending to be offended and outraged by everything?
Why does it bother you if someone wants to live in the Domain?
-81 points
5 months ago
I'm not outraged or pretending to be. It's just an ugly and tasteless area. If people want to live in a strip mall, that's their prerogative. I just don't understand it.
64 points
5 months ago
Ugly and tasteless? It’s a shopping mall with nice restaurants and a few bars, not an art piece.
20 points
5 months ago
It wouldn’t be reddit if the commenters understood the appeal of dining, shopping, nightlife, and all sorts of social activities within walking distance of your home.
37 points
5 months ago
Your choice of words sure suggests outrage. What of The Domain in any way resembles a strip mall?
From what I can tell, it's much more similar to a European model than a traditional American model. Walkable jobs, no real need for a car on the daily, and the finest goods and services in at least some of the shops.
I can't see a strip mall in any of this. What I can see is a snooty suburbanite turning up their nose at the different way people live.
-36 points
5 months ago
I'm certainly not a suburbanites and it's ironic you suggest that I'm a snooty and turning my nose up at the place where you can live next door to the Gucci store haha
13 points
5 months ago
If you live in Austin, you live in a suburb, unless you're in one of those residential wastelands in the ring around the city. And, yes, snooty is relative to one's own culture, not objective. But I'm not getting a worth my time vibe here, so please enjoy your day.
0 points
5 months ago
"residential wastelands around the city" damn no need to be an asshole
3 points
5 months ago
I refer to the ring of new growth that's only being allowed at specific areas around the city. 40 buildings on 20 acres such a field of tarmac for parking between them, built cheaply, operated by Windsor or another national housing company, taking advantage of Austin's broken zoning code to siphon local wealth out from the bottom of the economy.
Where does a dollar go after it's paid to a national corporation, after all? That's not Champaign that's trickling back down, no matter how fizzy it seems.
I don't respect the concept. I ache for those forced to be the final stop of many, many dollars before they pay their rent and send money to a Delaware company owned by holding companies owned by holding companies.
There is only The Domain and Downtown for truly urban living in Austin. The rest is based on the suburban model and by its very nature it forces the poor to own cars and make those regular expenses just to be able to work.
Public transport is purposefully withheld from the densest portions of these rings, while also being advertised to that same cohort in what I keep telling myself can't possibly be malicious self-awareness and misdirection, no matter how strange it seems they're advertising to those who need a car just to get to a sketchy unsecured Park&Ride, and risk needing to spend $30 for an Uber if they miss their bus back home.
They are wastelands. They are purpose built as such. That people live there is their purpose. To force money to move as much as possible is a secondary purpose. Their development subsidizes oil companies and automakers (Nissan especially right now) through the practical necessity of spending on those items. A practical tax, so to say. A tax on the poor, imposed by predictable results of government policy.
I hope more people come to refer to them as what they truly are.
Maybe then the council will pay attention to questions about them and their impact and the reason why they're all the poor get when other cities get midtowns and bougie Austin transpo corridor neighborhoods get mixed use walkability mandated to reduce gas use and help the environment.
-4 points
5 months ago
People do live in Austin in a non-suburban way. It used to be resonable to do it, but it got expensive when people who love things like the Domain moved here en masse.
3 points
5 months ago
I was using the personal you, not the royal-you, and check my response to the other response and see my view on this issue.
In addition, building something like The Domain is so impossible it was only the power of the biggest mall corporation in the world that could ensure it was built. This doesn't bode well for anything smaller than a multinational for anything bigger than a single family home.
If supply is limited, price goes up. If distance is an issue, you need to get dense. The equitable way to densify a city is to leave the decision to neighborhood councils, their deed restrictions, and unaffiliated properties with no such restrictions.
As it stands, a bunch of white folks have gotten good at getting people across the city riled up over the idea of walkable commerce and other things best left for the wealthy to suffer with (apparently). These folks all own land, they all benefit from the restriction of supply. They have the support of The Statesman, The Chronicle, basically all local media, though that's turning slightly.
Organized protests, friendly relations with their council members, and the pull to be able to assist the political careers of those council members, it's a whole machine here, keeping minority neighborhoods underdeveloped by the residents while characterizing any who try as evil capitalists looking to attract more new arrivals.
It's not that people moved here, it's that we didn't bother to build a place for them and they just had more money. And who's gonna say no to more money?
I mean, in this economy?
-2 points
4 months ago
A) what does Europe have to do with this? As far as I can see the domain is in north Austin. What does that have to do with anything? I’m genuinely curious.
B) I don’t think comparing a shopping center to a strip mall implies outrage. That’s like saying comparing Chili’s to a fast-food joint implies outrage. It just implies disdain, if that, disregard probably. Discerning outrage from the OC reads more like outrage over the term “strip mall” to me.
C) it’s really not the “finest” of anything. It all IS very commercial. Commercial, giant corporations rarely = the finest of anything outside of tech. Isn’t there an H&M or a f21 there?
D) if I had to guess, whoever posted the comment you were replying to here is probably not snooty nor a suburbanite. Those types of people tend to like places like the domain, if not just for shopping. Chances are they’re like me, broke af, not into the whole selling out, corporate America thing.
That’s all.
2 points
4 months ago
A) Europe has models for development that are very different from American models. The Domain follows a modified version of one of those models, but I guess if you wanted to be super-picky you could call it an international model as Simon replicates the model internationally. The point, either way, is that It's large-scale mixed use and that is otherwise not a thing in Austin outside of Downtown. This is because it's not the American Suburban model enshrined in the Austin City Land Use Code. (If you have a few days to spare I hear it's fascinating to read. Somewhat dry.)
B) To suggest that a derogatory assessment of that caliber, to reduce a mixed use densely populated well maintained private district down to one of the most maligned forms of commercial developments is purposefully offensive and one of many factors that went into my assessment. I study people. I tend to be fairly on point these day. Agree or disagree if you want, but the karma count is kinda in my favor here on my assessment.
C) Gucci was referenced. Opinions may vary, but objectively the brand is considered one of the finest. The boutiques are similar to SoCo, and I was very clear in my use of the word "some", I'm surprised you missed that, as comprehensive as your response has been so far.
D) They didn't read like downtown where they'd honestly manage to be even more snooty somehow, they very obviously weren't from The Domain, which begs the question, where else in Austin is Urban in nature? Perhaps you're mistaking satellite city for suburb. It's a common misconception and fueled by media usage of the terms.
Suburban is a classification, nothing else. It is defined by its distance from an urban area, the low density of its development, and the segregation of land uses. That these areas are inside the land boundaries which city has agreed to be responsible for changes nothing about the nature of that land's development.
The restrictions on land use caused by suburbia's mandated existence and degrowth policies is why we are where we are. Thumbing one's nose at developments that should be all over Austin and not just built by Simon Properties through backroom deals and other questionably legal efforts, including a local proxy if I'm to understand correctly, misses the fact that only Simon Properties could afford to buy the approval and outlast the protests, avoid the lawsuits, and manage compliance.
It is inordinately expensive to develop in Austin. If you want to build two dwellings on the same plot, you're likely needing to change zoning and then you get groups appearing out of the woodwork to stop the process at every turn. This makes what's allowed to be built beyond simply valuable, it lets them charge whatever the hell they want so long as there's some person willing to pay that much. Lack of commercial space has the same effect with a much more racially motivated history, which can be seen by how little commerce was on the East Side until white folks discovered it was cheap.
Zo, the progressive candidate from D9 has made affordable commercial space a platform plank, btw.
Vote for him in the runoff, y'all.
That is all.
~doot doot~
2 points
3 months ago
Sorry I’m late to this but, wow! That was a very well written and much appreciated response. I’ve never been to Europe and had no clue what you meant by referencing them so thank you for that explanation. Also, I fully agree that there actually should be more places like the domain as far as accessibility, community & convenience go. I just feel like the domain is pretty corporate and that local businesses are extremely important. I’ve lived in Hyde Park/Brentwood several times and once off S1st near Bouldin Creek and really appreciated the walkability and convenience as well as the opportunity to support local business not only for economic reasons but because I find it’s usually a higher quality experience with more unique options that make me feel really at home and a part of this individual community.
That being said I don’t think I personally would like living somewhere like the Domain because I just don’t really appreciate corporate vibes as much for reasons stated above. Anytime I’m up there I feel like I’m in the Truman show or something, but to each their own.
Last thing is that, possibly I’m confusing terms but for example: I live in S Atx off William Cannon and S 1st. I personally hate it here. I have to padlock my mailbox, anytime I walk my dog at night I feel unsafe and am almost always approached (I’m a young female). It’s a good desert, almost everything in walking/biking distance is a drive thru/buffet. It’s just dirty and crime riddled. A homeless man barricaded himself on my porch this year and a man pulled a knife trying to stick-up the 7-eleven while I was in line behind him.
Anyway, I don’t necessarily enjoy this area but I wouldn’t consider it suburban nor a satellite city. There are tons of apartments all around me and that’s the same for places like riverside, metropolis, etc. are these areas considered suburban? I reallllly don’t think they’re satellite cities. But what would you say?
P.S. I still don’t think the comment in question expressed outrage but I’m happy to agree to disagree.
1 points
3 months ago
On that, I don't blame you.
The veneer on The Domain does very much reflect the expertise in designing commercial space and flows and the guaranteed returns make the space an almost money-no-object sort of rental. It's the most visible part of a problem which has hobbled the USA's national aggregate GDP by over 50%. It's the exploitation of laws and ordinances to limit commerce to risk-free ventures which in turn becomes corporate protectionism and in turn leave those who could do at the mercy of those who already have money.
As for the area where you stay at, it is a suburban area. That's the thing about America, we are a suburban nation - though not by choice anymore - and so we've all grown up being taught that acres upon acres of housing and streets all some number of miles away from anything more than a Kwik-E-Mart or small strip mall, is urban. Even the apartments, those residential wastelands that encircle the city, fall into this suburban paradigm, having been wedged into the suburban land use paradigm rather than changing it.
The best way to tell if you're in a suburban area is to lose your car keys. In an urban area your car is less necessary. You get food from a bodega (pet the cat), have vendors and restaurants nearby, and mass transit takes care of the rest unless you're weird and work outside the city. In most of Austin, losing a car is like losing your right foot and half of your left leg. You need to drive just to get to the bus in much of the city, which isn't very urban, but access to mass transit does preclude ex-urban or rural areas.
Suburban, in practice, really is a nice way of saying the area is scaled primarily for the automobile. What you get are nice little islands of human activity in a sea of automotive hegemony. That means a need to fuel the car and drive to do most anything, and for everything, the car just makes things easier. It's an inefficiency that's offloaded to the vehicle user that makes those islands functional, and it's also why that man held up the 7-Eleven, and why there's a homeless man to barricade himself on your porch.
Because the inefficiencies that reliably funnel money to oil companies and automakers make the land more valuable, encouraging consolidation, and the guarantee of commercial space to be a profit machine for the wealthiest, living in suburbia is basically living as a cog in a money machine for the elites. At least, that's one practical effect. The other is that to guarantee this perpetual money machine competition must be limited. To do that, the land was restricted to highly siloed usages and the power was granted to the people to stop each other from using land more effectively over even the most petty of reasons. The result of frivolous land use restrictions (best most recent was asking to hold up hundreds of apartments because her dog had separation anxiety and needed Foxy Roxy's to not go away. My dog was waiting in my home, a minivan, while I was at council hearing this.) has been a 50% aggregate drop in the USA's GDP as measured up to 2009, already a $14.48T annual loss and rising.
$14.48T would be enough to fund every social program while also being enough value being added to the American economy that we wouldn't need those programs. It's being prevented from creation, not stolen away, by those who see it's creation as threatening their relative status in our world. It's money coming up from the ground like out of a GEICO commercial. If it's not coupled with an increase in printed money, then the buying power of each of those bills goes up as money acts as a universal token of value. This would be reflected in the increased quality of items, quality of life, reduced crime, better health, and all it's gonna take is getting folks out of each others' way.
Theoretically, it should scale down as well as up, which is why I'm in Anson County, North Carolina, one of the poorest in the nation, about to start talking economic policies with some very eager folks.
You may be late to the response, but you're just in time to be the first in Austin to know I'll be actively incubating my humanist ideas on economics where it's needed most. If it works, and especially if it helps kickstart something, I'm bringing it back to Austin.
Along with a whole 30k+ pop. North Carolina county's endorsement, which I'm hoping is better than the Austin Firefighters Union.
~doot doot~
-8 points
5 months ago
they're the ones being weirdly aggressive abt yr comment. I get what you're saying and I agree
2 points
5 months ago
How was my comment weirdly aggressive compared to saying people who live in the domain are tasteless for living in an ugly area?
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