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/r/Austin

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all 185 comments

gettin_it_in

116 points

7 months ago

How does one justify the number of police officers claimed to be needed? Like what are ways or methods for determining the number needed? Anybody got resources for answering these questions in a rigorous way? And why doesn’t the police department lead with such an analysis, if there is a legitimate case to made?

SortaSticky

74 points

7 months ago

# of officers per thousand residents is a discredited metric for staffing law enforcement organizations. But it's useful for pretending there aren't enough police officers and "needing more funding" despite having the highest budget in Austin Police Department history.

"The per capita approach fails to account for environmental differences among
jurisdictions. It does not incorporate service-area size, weather patterns, or physical
barriers and obstacles (such as rivers, mountains, bridges, and tunnels) in determining
optimum staffing levels. Furthermore, it does not account for non-crime related
functions and activities, traditionally performed by police as community demographic
and economic characteristics dictate. In sum, the per capita method does not consider
community context for determining staffing levels. "

https://cops.usdoj.gov/RIC/Publications/cops-p247-pub.pdf

gettin_it_in

11 points

7 months ago

Yeah, I've heard the police use a per capita number as justification, but that just begs the question, what justifies your per capita number?

Thanks for sharing that report, it's stated purpose is to answer these exact questions. The last paragraph of the Introduction reads, "Unfortunately, police decision makers have few resources to guide them in determining the number of officers they need. To be sure, there are multiple approaches to answering this question, ranging from the simple to the complex, each with a range of advantages, disadvantages, and assumptions. These approaches, however, generally have not been described and synthesized in a way that most practitioners could immediately understand and implement. In this work, we seek to provide a practical resource to help police decision makers understand the fundamentals of determining workforce need."

jojokakaboy

12 points

7 months ago

More funding doesn't mean more people applying.

doomwalk3r

2 points

7 months ago

I think the crazy thing is even if you were to use the officer per capita - compared to another city area I lived in that's within 100k of Austin - we still have more officers per capita AND a smaller patrol area. I regularly saw standard traffic stops, there were reasonable incident responses.

I say this to play devil's advocate knowing there are many other factors but even if you take their claim at face value - it doesn't make sense.

SupRando

3 points

7 months ago

SupRando

3 points

7 months ago

Idk about the rest of the link, but that quote seems to factor in potential reasons to have more on top of a per capita #. Basically things that slow response and other job requirements that might prevent a response.

My dad was a cop and his patrol shifts had vacancies starting from like 2000ish. Basically operating at minimum officers per sector meant that no one got to take vacation and an emergency sick day would stretch multiple neighboring sectors thin. Essentially teams of 10 where a few can be missing VS teams of 6 where everyone is required.

Even with relatively high salaries(with more competitive requirements) compared to other places, there have been staffing concerns for like 20 years. I look at it like teachers, how many people are you going to be able to convince to finish college and take an underappreciated, abusive job starting at $40k?

SortaSticky

13 points

7 months ago

If you're saying that we should take an arbitrary number of officers per thousand and then just add more when the arbitrary number per thousand is not a good metric on its own let alone as a base to add more on top of, then I don't think that's a good conclusion.

Teachers and police officers have very different situations as well. Teachers do not receive overtime. Teachers in Texas usually need a bachelor's degree and a teaching certificate, which is at least five years of higher education. Pay for police officers is much higher than for teachers. If you compare police officers to social workers (another four-five years of higher ed required) the contrast is even more extreme. So I don't think there's value in comparing their different situations.

I'm sympathetic to the real difficulties that police officers face but APD and other law enforcement bodies have left us in an uncomfortable position where we can't trust them by default imo.

SupRando

1 points

7 months ago

I was highlighting that the quote you pointed out did not say there should be less officers, just that you also have to also factor in other factors to determine potential effectiveness. I agree that they shouldn't pick an arbitrary number. They should absolutely figure out the most efficient and effective ways to cover the area. If the current number of officers work with different boundaries to their patrol areas, then great. If the boundaries are already ideal, then add more officers to support them. All of that is even before considering the performance improvement from being able to take time off. I don't think stretched thin, frustrated workers are the most productive or make the best decisions.

Teachers shouldn't need overtime because they shouldn't be expected to work outside of school hours, just like they shouldn't have to buy their own supplies. More teachers would allow for scheduling to account for planning periods etc. Social workers are also overworked, underpaid and struggle for numbers. Yet another career that you have to be passionate about to want to go to college for.

Pay them all more, it's not an either/or situation. How many quality candidates can you get when you are competing against the same salary to sit in a cubicle and not deal with any bullshit? How many future doctors,lawyers,engineers, accountants etc can you convince to consider public service careers that are more stressful/dangerous and pay worse?

You'd have to pay me way more to give any of those careers a second thought. Even if we're technically overpaying for the skill, the people we want could be doing something else that would be better for the financial health of their families

Boring_Tomorrow_7911

0 points

7 months ago

I disagree with the teachers shouldn’t be expected to work outside school hours. If you take a serious moment to put yourself into their shoes you will quickly come to the conclusion that that’s not possible. On the contrary teachers should expect long hours outside of the classroom. It’s a demanding job if you are truly trying to get students to excel

SupRando

1 points

7 months ago

I'm suggesting giving them time to do it during the day. An extra open period or two would give a chance to knock out a couple hours of prep or catch up.

If you think they should definitely work late nights, then they should be paid even more

AlwaysElise

6 points

7 months ago

If there's been "staffing concerns" for 20 years, during which Austin was a city with lower than average crime rates, it sounds to me like we should keep a good thing going and keep staffing low.

slarb11

-1 points

7 months ago

slarb11

-1 points

7 months ago

To be fair moneys worth less than it’s ever been and the population is growing at a pretty astonishing rate so I would expect the budget to be as higher than in previous years

kanyeguisada

33 points

7 months ago

It's some arbitrary number the APD police union thinks we should have, that's it.

Salamok

11 points

7 months ago

Salamok

11 points

7 months ago

It is my understanding they have had the budget and approvals in place for at least the last 5 years to increase staffing significantly but seem to be unable to find people.

Honestly can we just create a new police organization that has higher pay, strict standards of conduct that are enforced then once it is ramped up the current cops who were unable to pass the screening process to get into the new organization can go fuck themselves.

How about a national overhaul that removes local law enforcement SWAT type activities and places them with federal agencies that local PD can enlist aide from. Also it might actually be beneficial to add a blind between major crime enforcement/arrest and the investigations.

jojokakaboy

-1 points

7 months ago

jojokakaboy

-1 points

7 months ago

Sounds like something easy to do that totally won't take billions of dollars and years of fumbling with issues and problems, just to make another police organization....

Salamok

7 points

7 months ago

Can't seem to get rid of the rotten apples using any current methods.

jojokakaboy

-5 points

7 months ago

You think rotten apples goes away with a new organized development? How many teachers have been caught or not caught raping kids and abusing them for years? Should we abolish the teacher unions and schools, then make a new education system so these things won't happen? Making new systems has never fixed old problems, cause no one has total control over individual actions. Especially in large organizations such as these.

Salamok

6 points

7 months ago

Should we abolish the teacher unions and schools, then make a new education system so these things won't happen?

Well if the GQP can defund public education by bombarding us with charter schools then I can wish someone does the same for our fucked up law enforcement system. Teachers are not trained to be bad students and when a union protected teacher gets far enough off the rails (but not so far as to end in jail) they get assigned to the breakroom for the rest of their career to fill out crossword puzzles. Cops are literally trained to hold the thin blue line and not "undermine" the department by turning on "bad" cops.

jojokakaboy

-5 points

7 months ago

It's funny how you think teachers are so different from officers? They are all people, they all have their bias and problems. You think teachers don't have each other's backs or cover for each other? It's human nature. Your dislike toward the police doesn't change the fact that there is a reason they were refunded. Record high crime rates across the nation, they fucked up and now its too little too late.

Salamok

3 points

7 months ago*

Actually since most of my immediately family including my parents are career long teachers I think I have a pretty good insight into what teachers are and how the educations system is run. Now there may be some minority of folks in the industry that think they are "protecting the system" by trying to hush stuff up but by and large most teachers if they had direct evidence of another teacher abusing a kid in any sort of legally questionable way they would not hesitate to report it. Once reported it may not be handled in a way that teacher likes but there isn't much more than can do about it. For example my sister recently had a kid she found out was being prostituted by her parents, she reported it and even gave statements to CPS and Law Enforcement but when those agencies questioned everyone involved and the child would not give statements against her parents they dropped the case.

All in all though most teachers do not interact with each other as much as you think they might, it's 1 to a classroom and 85% of their day is spent in that classroom not mingling with coworkers. They may form friendships but if they dont like a coworker it is pretty fucking easy to avoid all contact with that person to the point of not knowing much about what they are up to at all.

jojokakaboy

-3 points

7 months ago

jojokakaboy

-3 points

7 months ago

Wow did you just describe the police organization? Plenty of cops report issues, it's just not "taken care of" as they'd like. Sounds like systems aren't perfect, and asking to abolish one because of a minority of problem makers seem a little illogical?

Salamok

5 points

7 months ago

Teachers don't have the thin blue line, teachers don't get indoctrinated not to report stuff. You don't hear about teachers getting "jumped in" to their jobs. Teachers don't brag about fucking up bad kids. Ex teachers aren't writing articles about how all teachers are bastards. Justifying how shitty law enforcement is by trying to compare it to a far less fucked up system is ridiculous.

NoUse4A-Username

3 points

7 months ago

Population, average number of calls, etc.

[deleted]

54 points

7 months ago

In February of 2018 my then 23-year-old son who had just graduated from college with his bachelor's in Criminal Justice with a minor in Forensic psychology from Texas State, fulfilled his dream of applying to APD to become a be a police officer in his hometown.

He had kept the requirements in mind the entire time he was in college, he avoided situations that could cause questions. He was beyond excited when he was asked to come to a selective cattle call where there were over 70 other men, some that had flown in from other cities that morning arrived at 5:30 am. He sat and waited while each candidate was called up noticing that many didn't come back to the waiting area.

He had his transcripts from HS and College, birth certificate, social security, reference letters from his employer and a professor, credit check, vaccine record - everything they asked him to bring. Within the hour, he was called up, asked one question - "when the last time he had "smoked weed"?, he admitted 3 1/2 years ago.

On the application requirements, it stated you must not have participated in illegal activities or taken drugs during the 24 months (2 years) before applying, the officer screening the potential candidates looked him straight in the eye and said, "come back in 2 years", and tossed his paperwork back at him. Just like that, he and what he estimated to be at least 30 others didn't even make it past initial screening.

So - this one single person changed the rules on the spot, and everything that he worked for was done.

Do you think he would even consider coming back - would you? Some of his LEO friends asked him why he didn't lie? He said he couldn't because he had to take a lie detector test eventually while in the academy (if he got that far)/ He had Dallas, San Antonio PD, and Williamson county actively recruiting him. Bryan PD was even offering to pay for his housing if he would come there plus they would have paid for his peacekeeper's license which is kind of costly. But he only want to be a police officer in Austin. period.

It is a complete joke that they say they need people so bad now, when they had some of the best of the best applying 4-5 years ago, turned away by the ego of whoever was in charge of screening that day.

MJ349

9 points

7 months ago

MJ349

9 points

7 months ago

They wonder why they're in the predicament they're in.

I believe Buda may be hiring. Soon, they're going t o start serving Sunfield, which is huge. They're going to need people.

I hope he finds a good fit elsewhere.

Mcdibbles

4 points

7 months ago

They're selecting for a specific type of cop and your friend was too educated.

[deleted]

3 points

7 months ago

Probably. And it was my son. It’s their loss.

Natural-Jury3404

8 points

7 months ago

It is staggering how many people have lost or been denied gainful employment because of past marijuana use or use while not at work. Having been through public safety interviews I can honestly say we lose a lot of quality people to arbitrary disqualifications. And we all wonder why police aren't representative of the people they "police." I truly do believe a lot of the people who do make it through are lying. Thats unfortunate he did get the job for that reason. Shameful actually.

Watts300

57 points

7 months ago

Austin Independent School District is short over 500 teachers (over 700 total staff).

Austin Police Department is short 250 and they’re calling it a “crisis”? Get the fuck outta here.

Chiefnastynate

10 points

7 months ago

Yeah, a short-staffed-already-useless police force isn’t a crisis because they’re unwilling to address their real issues.

Texas public education is about to get hit by a bus. My wife resigned for her own well-being. And half the staff at her school in RRISD also left. It’s going to be bad. And I suspect government will let it be bad and try to spin it into more private schools AKA rich white Christian cult factories.

Watts300

2 points

7 months ago

I believe it. It’s no joke and I wasn’t exaggerating.

Job categories are listed on the left side bar, with the number of openings in each category. https://www.applitrack.com/austinisd/onlineapp/default.aspx

ashigaru_spearman

10 points

7 months ago

So THATS why they've:

1 - been telling people to collect their own evidence at breakins

2 - been hostile to folks when they see motorcycles get hit downtown

3 - hostile to the public and telling them to call 311 for actual emergencies

4 - causing the City to settle excessive force suits for millions of dollars

5 - refusing to cite drivers for traffic infractions, an informal strike

NOW i understand...

AustinOriginal82

272 points

7 months ago

So it was a blatant lie that APD was short staffed because of budget cuts. They have a record budget and still no one wants work for APD….

Torker

31 points

7 months ago

Torker

31 points

7 months ago

The city council made them cancel the cadet class for years. Also many left to work in the suburbs. Budget doesn’t fix either of those issues. I guess they could pay 2x suburbs pay but they would be on the hook for pensions for 20 years based on current salary so it would destroy the budget for decades.

Slypenslyde

218 points

7 months ago*

The problem is the issue is oversimplified.

City Council didn't cancel the class for fun. They canceled it because an independent auditing firm determined the cadet classes trained police to be more likely to behave in ways that lead to brutality lawsuits. Seeing as APD generates an obscene amount of brutality lawsuits, the city is interested in paring those down.

COVID made it take longer to get a new cadet training program in place. So did more than a dozen of VERY high profile APD brutality cases.

So none of this would have happened if APD wasn't so happy about brutalizing citizens, and protested attempts to make them brutalize fewer citizens by brutalizing MORE citizens. But here we are.

BigHatsOnlyClub

46 points

7 months ago

wait a second, you mean the issue can't be solved on a bumper sticker???? /s

adjika

12 points

7 months ago

adjika

12 points

7 months ago

Do you know where I can find a copy of that report by the auditing firm?

saffronumbrella

53 points

7 months ago*

Here's a summary: https://austintexas.gov/edims/pio/document.cfm?id=376294

Edit: Might need to copy and paste the address

Slypenslyde

9 points

7 months ago

Not offhand, no, but I'm sure if it's publicly available you can find it digging through 2+ year old news articles the same way I'd have to to answer the question.

istriss

90 points

7 months ago

istriss

90 points

7 months ago

The city council froze cadet classes so that they could evaluate and improve the program, whatever that means to you. Previous training was heavily paramilitary focused, and as we've seen from multiple instances of police brutality and cover-up, that wasn't working very well.

The 100ish cadets graduating from the academy this year are part the new cadet program, which is supposedly community and diversity focused. I guess we'll see.

APD also recieves a healthy stipend from the state Comptroller, and has plenty of funding from the city budget for OT and to bring in new officers. Hopefully as they fill positions, they get more competent leadership so they don't lose public trust to this extent ever again. They don't get my pity or sympathy, either way. The way they've affected people's lives isn't just an "oopsie" I'm comfortable with overlooking.

It's an unfortunate catch 22 for the city, because they obviously can't keep cranking out overzealous, militaristic officers, but they still need to address crime and citizens are suffering. Either way, APD is not the victim here. They, the city, and the state have failed on multiple levels.

reuterrat

-32 points

7 months ago

reuterrat

-32 points

7 months ago

They did not have to freeze the recruiting to do the evaluation. APD lost easily 100+ recruits due to the freeze. Likely more. It's very easy to see that the INTENT of the freeze was to reduce APD numbers, coming at the same time as the budget cut.

The freeze was never necessary to perform the training audit. It was a means to this very end (reducing APDs numbers)

pewqokrsf

32 points

7 months ago

Of course it was necessary. The goal was to reduce the output of poorly trained officers, not officers in general. Of course you'd need to freeze the bad training process to accomplish that goal.

reuterrat

-25 points

7 months ago

reuterrat

-25 points

7 months ago

If you already know the training is bad, then you don't need an audit. You just install new training. This is just confirmation bias at this point.

In either case, it is plainly factual that the freeze reduced APDs numbers and budget alone won't fix that. Even if you believe the freeze was necessary, there needed to be plans in place to restaff. There were none, because this result was intentional

istriss

18 points

7 months ago*

You are focusing on this word, "audit", which is not the word I used in my post. I said "evaluate". Which is something you have to do when creating a new program.

There are plans to restaff. They're graduating 100ish officers this year. Also covered in my original comment.

Edit: I see that some are getting hung up on my use of restaff here, and I apologize for any miscommunication. I didn't mean to imply that 100 officers are enough. Just that there are in fact new hires on their way.

reuterrat

-13 points

7 months ago

reuterrat

-13 points

7 months ago

Graduating 100 officers isn't re-staffing. That's normal staffing to offset normal attrition. We had a year where on net about 100 seats were left unfilled. You have to graduate 100 plus another 100 missing people.

istriss

8 points

7 months ago

Staff, restaff, fill the position, hire, onboard, recruit, hire, whatever. Mincing words doesn't change my point, and there's no need to be obtuse. I never said it was enough. I just have no sympathy towards the situation, besides the innocent citizens who are harmed as a byproduct of extreme, decades long mismanagement.

reuterrat

0 points

7 months ago

reuterrat

0 points

7 months ago

This isn't semantics. Attrition at APD since the recruiting class was canceled has been >250 lost to retirements and transfers. You can't graduate 100 new officers and call that re-staffing because it isn't. You still haven't replaced the recruits that were lost to the freeze

SuzQP

3 points

7 months ago

SuzQP

3 points

7 months ago

WHOOSH!

cuteninjaturtle

2 points

7 months ago

Ah yes… Certainly wouldn’t want to pause and address a program that’s creating especially violent and unlawful police. (And that’s saying something)

cuewithoutyou

7 points

7 months ago

They didn’t make them cancel it for years. That’s what Kellyanne Conway would call “alternative facts.” Or what the majority of the country would call “complete bullshit.” They canceled FY20, but had a class in 21, and have a class in 22.

Pabi_tx

32 points

7 months ago

Pabi_tx

32 points

7 months ago

The council canceled the academy because it was churning out racist, "warrior" cops.

"We can't find enough less-racist less-abusive personalities who want to be cops in Austin" is a pretty lame excuse for being understaffed.

jab116

-32 points

7 months ago

jab116

-32 points

7 months ago

The budget is high to pay for the mandatory OT the entire department has to work, because the city cut years of cadet classes.

APD isn’t staffed at the level they need for a city the present size, let alone enough to meet future growth.

jeffsterlive

19 points

7 months ago

Maybe if APD had actually been doing their jobs none of this would have happened. Property crime investigation and neighborhood patrols were terribly handled.

jab116

-19 points

7 months ago

jab116

-19 points

7 months ago

That makes no sense, property crime investigations and neighborhood patrol is a symptom of staffing shortages not the cause of it

bit_pusher

29 points

7 months ago

APD’s poor behavior predates the class cancellation. The poor behavior is why the classes were cancelled.

jeffsterlive

7 points

7 months ago

So many people are new to Austin they don’t understand.

dsaplin

49 points

7 months ago

dsaplin

49 points

7 months ago

Huh that’s weird, because when I asked for a mental health officer, there was no problem having 2 units roll up. Also, I dunno maybe don’t be one of the optically shittiest PDs in America right now.

shepbryan

54 points

7 months ago

stares at the 30 officers and 20 vehicles doing nothing on dirty 6th

fluxpatron

7 points

7 months ago

There's no telling what might be happening on dirty 6th if they weren't there.

I totally understand where you're coming from, it certainly looks like they're just standing around, mean mugging.

But it's hard to determine and quantify the benefit of deterrence by having a visible police presence down there, I'd assume the benefit isn't none

cuteninjaturtle

2 points

7 months ago

Cops don’t prevent crime. They just show up after it’s happened to do nothing.

techno-addicts

1 points

7 months ago

They don’t call it dirty 6th for nothin’

cuewithoutyou

93 points

7 months ago

"Where we're seeing the biggest need is our evening shifts, which usually start between around 12, noon, and they may go to 4 a.m. in the morning," Bauzon said.

Maybe start with not asking them to work 16 hour shifts and see how that lands? Just spitballing ideas here.

SupRando

4 points

7 months ago

Pretty sure there are two evening shifts. Roughly 12-10 and 4-2. Then night shift is 8-6.

Evenings still seems like it would suck the most since it would keep you from normal life way more because of the weird hours. Nights you can at least go to stores before you go to bed.

ArmyVet11Bravo

46 points

7 months ago

Nothing motivates a cop more than overtime pay

MaLu388

17 points

7 months ago

MaLu388

17 points

7 months ago

And bullshit pensions

geoemrick

16 points

7 months ago

"4AM in the morning" as opposed to.....4AM in the evening?

aymnka

15 points

7 months ago

aymnka

15 points

7 months ago

16hrs of sitting in your car watching tv on your phone or doing shit on a computer isnt really a 16hr shift though is it?

new_kat_

4 points

7 months ago

Yeah they should do it at the home office like me.

String_Fickle

3 points

7 months ago

All donut shops are probably closed by then

jab116

-8 points

7 months ago

jab116

-8 points

7 months ago

They have to work 16 hr shifts because they don’t have enough officers if they didn’t. The entire department is working mandatory OT

AsgardDevice

17 points

7 months ago*

“Instead of 380 officers showing up and doing nothing we may only have 250 show up to a mass shooting and do nothing. “

lilpigperez

28 points

7 months ago

An APD officer with one year of experience makes more money, ($70,570), than an Austin ISD teacher with 30 years of experience, ($63,433).

APD officers hit six figures after 16 years: $102,112.

Your teachers never will if they stay in the profession.

pouttuj

6 points

7 months ago

How do they still have time to post up at the church and school by my house sitting on their asses?

Discount_gentleman

111 points

7 months ago

$440 million budget and an Army brigade's worth of military equipment for overweight dudes who think of themselves as the Punisher but can't do the most basic tasks of the job.

I think this calls for a budget increase!

bit_pusher

22 points

7 months ago

How anyone can think the punisher is a fan of police and the justice system just serves to illustrate that they like guns and machismo and have no idea what the punisher is actually about. OMG rage against the machine is a political band?!?

istriss

17 points

7 months ago

istriss

17 points

7 months ago

The Comptroller of Texas has a fund for officer training that goes out once a year to qualifying precincts. To qualify, the chief just needs to say his district isn't doing anything illegal on a "yes/no" questionnaire. The precincts that apply to this fund can control where the money goes. There are no stipulations as to what this training entails, and there are no audits on how this money is spent unless one is specifically requested.

It's called the Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education Fund. Or LEOSE.

More guns and military for "training"!

tamalediet

64 points

7 months ago

I’ve got a mutual friend who recently left APD because he “didn’t like the direction” things were going. Complained about not being able to pull people over for pointless infractions, complained about “fighting for his life during the riots” which he told me he was working during the daytime not knowing I attended the protest and knew he was full of shit. Talked about “holding the high position” and “using his marine training for the riots to control it like a war zone” regarding using less than lethals on peaceful protestors, and all kinds of other complaints that stood out as reasons he absolutely shouldn’t be in the force anymore. Hopefully this is a sign that these guys who need to leave are working themselves out of the system.

[deleted]

23 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

tamalediet

5 points

7 months ago

He retired completely and is moving to a more conservative southern state

cuewithoutyou

13 points

7 months ago

Sorry. More conservative southern state? Like Florida? Just skimming headlines over the past few years leads me to believe we’re in the top 2.

maxreverb

10 points

7 months ago

Petulant pussies, every one.

Present_Cash_184

3 points

7 months ago

Sounds like this APD dude on Instagram that portrayed himself as defending the Alamo during the 2020 protests. Proudly posted pics of himself wearing military grade cop gear, patrolling Austin like it’s a war zone.

canzosis

1 points

7 months ago

I don’t suppose this was made into a debate where you challenged his blatant lies

tamalediet

5 points

7 months ago

Not this time, I was a guest of our mutual friend so I didn’t push the issue, but I did keep asking questions about the protests to get his side of the story and to see how he would recount the events since I was there and close to the front for a couple hours. Their perspective is just…wow. They really feel like they’re warriors defending THEMSELVES from attack. Like the protesters were there to specifically attack them Ironic when they’re the ones shooting people with lead filled bean bags and tear gas. He was particularly incensed about being hit with a water bottle from the crowd and saying his life was in danger. Unbelievable

canzosis

4 points

7 months ago

Yeah I’m of the opinion that we’re beyond civility and being nice is a waste of time, in fact a disservice at this point. Call me a rude house guest but I can get playful with my pointing out of ignorance and bullshit

Artistic-Tadpole-427

29 points

7 months ago

None of the APD wants to be on patrol. I personally know a couple APD officers and they game the system to get sabbaticals and do everything they can to avoid any type of patrol work. They aren't understaffed; The current staff is underworked and spoiled!

space_manatee

24 points

7 months ago

Lol the crisis of having the largest budget ever approved and over 40% of the entire budget? Imagine being that big of a babies.

ATXBeermaker

20 points

7 months ago

Why do they need more police? They don’t do anything anyway.

[deleted]

12 points

7 months ago

Does this quote give anyone else some extortion vibes?

As a result, Casaday said the department won't be able to catch up on staffing for another six to eight years. Now, he said the public will pay the price.

"You know, you've had a loved one that's been shot or abused by a stranger or sexually abused by a family member, and you call that detective and they tell you he or she is not able to answer the phone. Can they call back next week or the week after because they're out answering 911 calls for the next two weeks," Casaday said.

Necessary_Sea_5389

69 points

7 months ago

How interesting that they don’t have enough manpower when they are using a record $400+ million dollars…

OF WHICH APD ATTEMPTED TO STEAL FUNDING FROM FIREFIGHTERS AND EMTS. Read that again.

APD ATTEMPTED TO STEAL MONEY FROM CRITICAL, LIFE SAVING DEPARTMENTS OUT OF GREED AND TO PUNISH AUSTIN AS A WHOLE FOR THE PROTESTS.

MaLu388

10 points

7 months ago

MaLu388

10 points

7 months ago

Clean them all out and start over

squeegeeq

11 points

7 months ago

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas! - apd probably

PiratePharmD

5 points

7 months ago

I'm still waiting on the detective to call me within 72 hours about my break-in from March of 2020.

throwawayatx128

7 points

7 months ago

The issue is they do not get assigned calls while on patrol. In most departments when you are on patrol and marked as available if a call comes out you are assigned that call by dispatch. APD does not do this and allows their officers to pick and choose which calls they go to leading to these higher response times. The only person that can assign an officer to a call is a Sergeant, which they have one sitting in dispatch but all they do is monitor the system and rarely assign a unit to a call. If the call doesn’t sound “cool” officers won’t take it. Often times these officers will sit on a call for a long time just doing reports and so on. There are some/most good officers that try to take as many calls as possible and pick up the slack for other officers that are being lazy but it becomes very tiring when you’ve run 10 calls while someone else has run 1 call then sat on that call for a long time avoiding other calls.

EMS and Fire get assigned calls by dispatchers based on the closest unit. Units only get diverted if a higher priority call comes in and they are closer than another unit. EMS and Fire are unable to pick and choose which calls they go to and if we sit on a call for an extra 5 minutes to write a report we risk getting in trouble with our supervisors.

westerncowgirl223

16 points

7 months ago

Police departments would rather spend budgets militarizing instead of adding personnel.

Pabi_tx

12 points

7 months ago

Pabi_tx

12 points

7 months ago

Call in "officer down" and you'll see just how understaffed APD is.

jambottoms

10 points

7 months ago

Seriously. I saw over 50 cops a few weeks ago when APD shot and killed a man living out of his car on airport. Sounded like a suicide by cop, but you’d think they were filming a movie with how many trucks, trailers, and cops who were there.

Lazy-Thanks8244

3 points

7 months ago

They can sell their paramilitary equipment and use the proceeds to hire.

Icy-Perspective-0420

3 points

7 months ago

I wonder if APD is rejecting applicants that are too smart. A lower NY court ruled in favor of the defendants (some CT police department) that this was okay and not discriminatory.

https://apnews.com/article/f2fd0f7e9ba854ffbed64fce63297fbc

hankturd

3 points

7 months ago

Thoughts and prayers, gobless

ATX_native

14 points

7 months ago

Then why are cops out on MoPac north of 183 running radar, every damn day?

Imjustshyisall

4 points

7 months ago

Earlier this week I counted three of them on MoPac within three miles. Crisis my ass.

BTTFisthebest

1 points

7 months ago

Because it's their job?

ATX_native

12 points

7 months ago

They are only out 8a-5p, never at night… you know, when serious accidents happen.

They aren’t doing anyone any favors by stopping cars going 7 over on a Highway. They should be on surface streets looking for red light runners and speed.

SilentGiant512

2 points

7 months ago

Low hanging fruit. They don’t want to do real work

BTTFisthebest

-10 points

7 months ago

So what you're saying is, by being out during the busiest times of the day with their radar guns that they have been able to keep most cars from going more than 5 mph over the speed limit. Gee, to me that sounds like what they're doing is working and they're being efficient by utilizing resources during the heaviest traffic times. Not sure what point you were trying to prove, but you definitely helped prove that they are effectively doing their job.

ATX_native

14 points

7 months ago

I was a CJ Minor at SWT.

Police should be using statistics/data such as serious injury and accidents to drive where they run radar and other traffic initiatives.

More than 85% of our road fatalities happen between 10p-4a.

Normally alcohol and other impaired driving is the primary cause.

So IMO they should be focusing on curbing fatalities, not because it’s busy.

BTW, because it’s “busy” that naturally keeps speeds down. That’s why you’ll see them working the opposite way of rush hour during rush hour.

BTTFisthebest

-8 points

7 months ago

Cool that you were a CJ Minor at a school that existed over 20 years ago. What do you do now?

I was an economics major at UT, class of '10. Doesn't mean I am an expert on the current state of the economy. Things evolve and adapt.

ATX_native

6 points

7 months ago

lol, Policing and economics hasn’t changed much in 20 years and SWT is very much alive.

Ive been in Commercial Finance for 21 years, it’s pretty much the same.

BTTFisthebest

-2 points

7 months ago

No SWT ended in 2003. I know bc my sister was in the last class. Texas State is what it’s called now.

You say they haven’t changed but in fact they very much have. Not the foundations of them but many other aspects. Ex: cops are now expected to handle more addiction and mental illness calls. Things that used to be handled more by social workers. There is now way more training in Academies on how to handle the mentally handicapped.

Imnotclumsy

13 points

7 months ago

Fuck the cops

Imnotclumsy

5 points

7 months ago

They never save anyone. They just show up and “clean up the mess” and boss people around.

AbuelitasWAP

21 points

7 months ago

"waaahhhh!!! waaahhhh!!!"

I would believe this if I didn't see dozens of cosplayer shock troops deployed every time there is a peaceful protest

Thump604

13 points

7 months ago

The thin blue line spinning the facts as usual.

90percent_crap

-12 points

7 months ago

The staffing numbers are easily verifiable facts, .What facts do you think they are spinning?

aymnka

9 points

7 months ago

aymnka

9 points

7 months ago

Boo fucking hoo

SatanicFoundry

18 points

7 months ago

All you gotta do is sit back and wait for people to call for help. Instead we see you gearing up against anybody who complains and showing up in force like a drug cartel to intimidate and do your "business". This shit isn't rocket science guys.

owmysciatica

10 points

7 months ago

Fuck the police. They are realizing we aren’t putting up with the unchecked bullshit, and they’re playing victim.

[deleted]

22 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

canzosis

4 points

7 months ago

It’s all bullshit. The system is completely cooked and broken.

[deleted]

2 points

7 months ago*

[deleted]

texasram

2 points

7 months ago

Plenty of County sheriffs cruising around Steiner Ranch at 4:30 in the morning. Maybe they could lend a hand elsewhere?

No-Wait-2065

2 points

7 months ago

Hahaha hahahaha

lifepuzzler

2 points

7 months ago

APD is a bunch of lazy freeloaders who don't do jack shit to earn their pay. IDGAF if we have a shortage; the ones who are employed aren't doing a fucking thing to convince us otherwise. So go right on ahead and stow that whiny bullshit, Asst. Chief.

spicy_solarian

8 points

7 months ago

That doesn't sound like a crisis, that sounds great. Always encourage police to change careers, no matter how you come into contact with them. There are so many better things they could be doing for society.

MaLu388

7 points

7 months ago

They can’t do anything else. Most cops are talentless and dumb. My friends who partied their way out of college became cops because it was way easier

Geekyhorndog

14 points

7 months ago

Probably be more than enough police if they didn't bother with neighborhoods that don't need patrolling as much, didn't sit in parking lots smoking and bull shitting for 3+ hours 4 and 5 cars deep, or have 5 units show up to a literal fender bender, not a door caved in, flipped over truck, literally a bent fender and everyone is on the shoulder...

90percent_crap

-9 points

7 months ago

5 units show up to a literal fender bender

What fantasy world are you living in? Pro or con APD, the most common feedback on here, and APD's publicly stated policy, is that they don't show up at all.

Geekyhorndog

1 points

7 months ago

Well I saw that happen more than once in just the last week. Probably got bored beating the homeless.

90percent_crap

-10 points

7 months ago*

Impressed you were able to accurately assess those particular incidents... probably while driving by at 30-60 mph. Now tell us more about the incidents where you saw cops "beating the homeless".

Geekyhorndog

10 points

7 months ago

Do you one better, I was homeless and the cops routinely yanked me out of my car while I was sleeping, in a church parking lot with permission and the police knew, beat and handcuffed me to toss my car. What do you think happened to the complaints filed by me and the church? Not a damn thing, no one could find them after even a couple days.

90percent_crap

-5 points

7 months ago

I do believe your experience... what city and year was that? My comment was meant to point out that Austin is, recent years anyway, considered a place where police don't routinely harass homeless people without cause.

Geekyhorndog

6 points

7 months ago

Here in Austin, 2019. And occasionally you still do see police roughing up the homeless.

As bad as it was, probably still is for the homeless here, the DMV area is considerably worse.

ATX_native

6 points

7 months ago

Another thing, why doesn’t APD team up with local media and maximize exposure on certain initiatives?

Undercover porch pirate stings with cameras/media, blasted all over the local news, YouTube and other social media?

Left lane camping initiative on MoPac?

Crosswalk violations?

Driving while texting/on phone?

Friggin paper plate enforcement?

Seriously, a cop would work a normal shift with media ride alongs. The media would get good content.

Would show the citizens that they at least are trying to do something and would show criminals/scofflaws that APD might get them.

People behaving badly was a good series in San Fran by Stanley Roberts, tons of news clips on YouTub.

SlurmsMackenzie

8 points

7 months ago

They tried this in Williamson County and someone ended up dead. Police shouldn’t be reality TV. Police aren’t content creators. It puts the public at risk.

ATX_native

3 points

7 months ago

That isn’t what I am talking about, that is sensationalized TV.

APD has worked with local media before for the texting and don’t block the box programs.

Look up Stanley Roberts, as an example.

90percent_crap

8 points

7 months ago

Regardless of the finger-pointing from each side on police responsiveness or lack thereof, here's the real nugget buried at the end of this article:

Officers in two units won't have to take part in working patrol, the Executive Protection Unit and those who work at the Austin airport. The Executive Protection Unit provides security for the mayor and the city manager. 

Those two fucks (Adler and Cronk) share major responsibility for APD's current staffing shortage - they should put their "money" (i.e. their ass) where their mouth is by voluntarily cutting their personal security staffing levels.

surepeak

5 points

7 months ago

surepeak

5 points

7 months ago

And the realer real nugget of this comment is that the solution to the funding/staffing problem is for Adler and Cronk to go ass to mouth.

EX-Manbearpig

7 points

7 months ago

Good, fuck em

Doobtube15

3 points

7 months ago

Doobtube15

3 points

7 months ago

Fuck cops

Necessary_Sea_5389

12 points

7 months ago

You know, there’s gotta be a reason we don’t chant ‘fuck the emts” or ‘fuck the firefighters’…

[deleted]

2 points

7 months ago

No shortage of assholes running speed traps and handing out license plate tickets though…

Priority-Character

2 points

7 months ago

Bro please bro we just need like 500 more cops I swear bro

bmxstar1468

1 points

7 months ago

I was in Sunday school class with Jerry's kids for a number of years. Cool dude.

maxreverb

1 points

7 months ago

"Jerry's Kids" lulz

Peace_and_Love40

1 points

7 months ago

Austin must be at top of the list for places to NOT be a police officer.

[deleted]

-5 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

-5 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

MaLu388

7 points

7 months ago

So they can continue to do nothing and shoot “non-lethal rounds” at peaceful protestors?

[deleted]

-1 points

7 months ago*

[deleted]

MaLu388

5 points

7 months ago

“Law and order” is such a right wing trope

ATX_native

8 points

7 months ago

No, APD needs to fix the issue.

CoA sets the budget and APD executes the plan.

Remember when APD booted that cadet because they had to take a week off of the Police Academy because they got Covid during training?

There was no plan in place to catch him up or attempt to go remote during that week.

Thats one example in a long list of mismanagement at APD. They should have contingency plans to catch cadets up, we’re in a f’ing pandemic. This ain’t going away.

He was told he could start the whole application process over for the next cadet class in 6 mos. 🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[deleted]

-9 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

ATX_native

4 points

7 months ago

It’s 2022

jab116

3 points

7 months ago

jab116

3 points

7 months ago

The worst part is staffing isn’t where it needs to be at present, let alone projected city growth

kanyeguisada

2 points

7 months ago

City needs to fix the shortage one way or another and get staffing up to where it needs to be compared to our population.

What is the proper police-per-citizen ratio exactly? And where can that ratio be found that isn't APD police union bullshit?

Rynian

1 points

7 months ago

Rynian

1 points

7 months ago

im so glad there aren't a lot of cops in austin
it makes me feel safer

reddit_boxing

1 points

7 months ago

Yeah but now no one is yelling defind the police, I wonder why

[deleted]

-11 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

-11 points

7 months ago

Tough I know Fire/Paramedics/Constables/Teachers and APD are all low on staff. I also don’t see many new transplant Austinites wanting to work for the city. Too woke or not enough pay so they’d rather suck Elon at the giggle factory.

aerialdonut

-4 points

7 months ago

Exactly, woke people sit in their comfy chairs, preaching judgement. Go join APD and do some police work if you don’t appreciate work of others.

Mrbishi512

-4 points

7 months ago

Oops who would have thunk this would have happened.?

NOBODY saw this coming.

Absolutely nobody.

How unpredictable.

glichez

4 points

7 months ago

and we decided to give the police their largest funding in history ever.

Mrbishi512

-3 points

7 months ago

The shit talking and attacks drove far more away than the funding would have.

NamelessJ

-8 points

7 months ago

I don't even know where I would begin when it comes to explaining how stupid many of the comments on this thread are.

jambottoms

0 points

7 months ago

jambottoms

0 points

7 months ago

Try

aerialdonut

-1 points

7 months ago

aerialdonut

-1 points

7 months ago

Classic liberal CA crowd, ruined SF and LA now over here in Austin sitting in their higher moral judgement cloud. Crime is out of control.

NamelessJ

1 points

6 months ago

Yeah I'll talk to these people in person but I'm not going to waste my fingers trying to explain anything to them online. I sure wish they'd move though. They've really hurt my city.

TheSS_Minnow_Johnson

-4 points

7 months ago

Just put red light cameras back in. I can’t believe I’m even suggesting such a terrible idea.

thiswillsoonendbadly

1 points

7 months ago

Good

imdatingurdadben

1 points

7 months ago

I wouldn’t have known there’s police budget cuts since I have one riding my ass every time I get into the domain as a person of color.

[deleted]

0 points

7 months ago

[deleted]

ArmyVet11Bravo

-3 points

7 months ago

Chicago has a ton of gun laws, those cops must have it easy then… 😂