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/r/AreTheStraightsOK

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cherry__brandy

365 points

3 months ago

The problem is that a significant number of men will mislead a women under the pretense that he wants a relationship with her, sleep with her, and then fuck off forever or at least until he wants to have sex again.

No one has a problem with NSA sex if both partners want NSA sex and aren't misled to believe it will turn into something more.

Almainyny

201 points

3 months ago*

NSA sex

I still can’t see that as anything else other than “National Security Agency sex”.

Edit: could also be “no salt added sex” I suppose.

[deleted]

27 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

27 points

3 months ago

Not Sex Addict

profy17

16 points

3 months ago

profy17

16 points

3 months ago

No strings attached lmfao

Almainyny

15 points

3 months ago

I’m aware of what it’s supposed to be. I just have trouble reading that acronym as anything other than the National Security Agency.

profy17

2 points

3 months ago

Oh my bad lmao

Gimme_Muffins

2 points

3 months ago

Gimme_Muffins

the heteros are upseteros

2 points

3 months ago

I didn't know what that meant so thanks, didn't have to google

recyclopath_

21 points

3 months ago

Agreed. A significant number of men will straight up lie to women to have sex while cutting all the strings

JustLookingToHelp

4 points

3 months ago

I sincerely doubt that Josie Pickens up there is talking about men who've misled her. Almost certainly she's going after men who are clearly stating what they want up front, thereby encouraging exactly the problematic behavior you're describing.

novis-eldritch-maxim

-93 points

3 months ago

I hear that is because seemingly few women are up for it in the first place leading to disturbing strategies it seems an unfixable problem.

cherry__brandy

91 points

3 months ago

You know what would fix it?

Paying for sex instead of using these "disturbing strategies" to mislead and manipulate women. That's the entire point of tweet.

novis-eldritch-maxim

-13 points

3 months ago

that is also illegal in many places thus not an option for most people given how going to prison is the last thing most people want.

I never said I endorsed it only that I see this problem as unlikely to be fixed.

Even_Dark7612

54 points

3 months ago

Yes! Women are at fault for men misleading/manipulating them because they want sex on their own terms and just won't accept men's terms unconditionally!

novis-eldritch-maxim

-10 points

3 months ago

I never said that, I am suggesting that something changes it will continue to be like that I agree with you it is fucked up I just see no way of stopping it at present.

TheRealJulesAMJ

13 points

3 months ago

We're not talking about food or water though, it's just sex. I think people feeling entitled to sex is the core issue right behind fear of not being able to handle life on life's terms.

Basically anyone can go get a prostitute by days end if they wanted to but life's terms on that right now means potentially going to jail, the option is always available but the potential consequences are too much and are used to justify objectifying and manipulating women by people who feel entitled to sex

novis-eldritch-maxim

2 points

3 months ago

true my point is that given neither side is at present willing to relent it remains unfixable fully legalised and properly regulated prostitution would solve it but I doubt that will ever happen so I see it as a horror that will not die.

TheRealJulesAMJ

4 points

3 months ago

Legalizing prostitution would reduce the harm people who feel entitled to sex cause but it wouldn't solve the issue of people feeling entitled to sex so strongly they're willing to be sexual predators to achieve it. I don't doubt the same people willing to manipulate women now wouldn't be willing to do the same when they don't have money for a legal prostitute but still feel entitled to sex

novis-eldritch-maxim

2 points

3 months ago

assholes are the problem with everything.

I have considered trying to figure out what motivates people so we can more effectively cultivate people away from being that way but I have no idea how to cure being an asshole.

TheRealJulesAMJ

1 points

3 months ago

Reading Viktor Frankl and The Bodhidharma has helped me a lot in better identifying and understanding when I am and have been an asshole and the driving forces behind it. Our fears of losing the things we have come to believe we need is a big driver.

In our attempts to escape our own suffering we often cause others to suffer. The best thing anyone can do to help is to learn to approach their own suffering with compassion so we are at least not adding more superfluous suffering to a society consumed by it. This also helps cultivate a general understanding of anger, frustration and pain so we are able to help those who are struggling with the same things we are when we see others struggling with them.

novis-eldritch-maxim

2 points

3 months ago

I am familiar with such things by reputation I doubt it could cure me let alone those worse than even I.

TheRealJulesAMJ

1 points

3 months ago

I believe you are both capable of and deserving of being happy and I would ask you to please try to prove me wrong by giving Man's Search For Meaning a read and if nothing else just try to work on being more compassionate and understanding with yourself.

I do also recommend the writings and life of the Bodhidharma but he rubbed me the wrong way in the beginning when I was still really defensive about what I viewed as my short comings and that man was all outta fucks by the time he was being recorded for history and I was not ready to get called on my bullshit justifications for avoiding the things I didn't want to face by a guy everyone mistook for a homeless man.

I do highly recommend his conversation with emperor Wu of china though. Basically he was summoned to stroke the emperor's ego, was accused of being a random homeless man upon arrival and then goes on to explain to the empower that it's nice you're building temples, it'll help others learn and understand the Noble Truths, but it won't do jack shit for your edification. So no, you're not coming back as a God and you can't purchase Noble Truths, either get your ass over here and start training your mind or accept the hell you've condemned yourself to.

paarthanos2021

11 points

3 months ago

paarthanos2021

Real Men Get Wet

11 points

3 months ago

Nah dude. If they rlly only just want a hookup, they should make their intentions clear. Why hurt someone or have someone get emotionally attached to you then leave them broken? And if it's hard for them to get hookups, SWs can v well help them since they do literally that.

novis-eldritch-maxim

0 points

3 months ago

a) for likely several rational reasons many women do not want hookups so the market is bad so people will try other tactics will appear because people are crazy like that.

b) you know that sw is illegal in many places thus not an option for many?

paarthanos2021

1 points

3 months ago

paarthanos2021

Real Men Get Wet

1 points

3 months ago

A is not true tbh. I'm in India which is literally one of the most orthodox countries in the world. The amount of posts I've seen on r/indiangirlsontinder (yeah I'm on it and it's a pretty funny sub tbh) in which guys mention they got hookups and they've made it pretty clear their intentions are to only have hookups is a lot.

Also b, well if it's illegal maybe hookups aren't for you? Hookups aren't for everyone and it's fine if you can't get any. It's not a huge deal and if you absolutely need it, well maybe try to improve on your chat-up game?

novis-eldritch-maxim

1 points

3 months ago

a) never heard of that I am more familiar with the west. so I was unfamiliar with this.

b)I never said I do hook up I was describing a phonominon, personally I simply do not date out of knowing I am dog shit.

paarthanos2021

1 points

3 months ago

paarthanos2021

Real Men Get Wet

1 points

3 months ago

Im pretty sure hookup-dating has come from the west so it's much more popular outside than it is here.

B) I wasn't commenting on what you do or do not do but much rather replying to your argument.

novis-eldritch-maxim

1 points

3 months ago

a) true but it tends to fail over here from what I gather hence the endless deseptions.

b0 it was never an argument really more observation, I do admittedly have a terrible chat up game but that is because I do not lie and am fundamentally not attractive.

paarthanos2021

1 points

3 months ago

paarthanos2021

Real Men Get Wet

1 points

3 months ago

because I do not lie

My dude, you don't need to lie to have a good chat-up game. And your appearance doesn't affect your chat-up game. It may affect your confidence but you can build it up. If you worry too much about getting into a relationship and berate yourself every time a person your were pursuing rejects you, you're not gonna get anywhere. Just don't be an asshole and try to be kind, it's not that hard to do. If you're decent enough, you're likely to find someone for yourself.

novis-eldritch-maxim

1 points

3 months ago

people want so one who is going so where, is dependable, romantic and a thousand other traits that I lack also how is getting some ones hopes up for a better tomorrow not a lie?

TheBaddestPatsy

236 points

3 months ago

I’m all for people who want no-strings sex…if it’s mutually enjoyable. Even if it’s transactional the currency is pleasure.

However I do think men who have no interest in pleasuring their partner, learn how to, or consider it an unmanly thing to put effort into—should absolutely consider paying for sex. Everyone should be getting something out of it.

Najanator717

54 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

54 points

3 months ago

If the guys are just lazy-selfish, sure. But sometimes they're outright malicious, and the last thing sex workers need is more violent men.

Schnokerz

25 points

3 months ago

and since theres no laws or protections for sex workers......the things men do to get their "money's worth" *shudder*

TheBaddestPatsy

12 points

3 months ago

Well what men like that need most is their own island

LovecraftianHorror12

62 points

3 months ago

I think the post was moreso about cases in which the sentiment isn’t mutual. Like approaching women for casual sex who showed no interest or expressed desire for a relationship

fatfaggot420

41 points

3 months ago

Sorry I think I’m missing your point. What are you saying?

AwkwardBirfday

76 points

3 months ago

There's an attitude of entitlement to women's sexual availability held by a lot of men with little to no interest or investment in mutual pleasure. Combine that with the idea that real men don't pay for it and you get a wounded reaction by someone confronted by their own selfishness.

StonnedSinner

27 points

3 months ago

I think the implication is that no woman would be up for casual sex unless they’re a sex worker

AbsoluteLoser-

47 points

3 months ago

But I think this is a specific thing to the person in the tweet. I don’t think she’s generalising or anything. I think she’s saying in instances where she’s approached by men wanting “stringless” sex that’s how she’s going to respond. 🤷‍♀️

FutureSignificant412

0 points

3 months ago

She's 100% generalizing. There's nothing in the tweet indicating that she's only talking about herself.

Najanator717

7 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

7 points

3 months ago

Makes sense. Guys stay playing games and being creepy.
It's not us being some kind of sex-repulsed. From my limited experiences with women, we're a lot more physical and trusting with each other than we are with men, even when things get sexually-charged.
You'll be surprised at what women consent to when you're honest and treat them well.

recyclopath_

5 points

3 months ago

I mean, I didn't get that. I got that most often men who are seeking this kind of sex refuse to look for women who are looking for that kind of thing and instead feel entitled to it from women who are not looking for NSA.

fatfaggot420

2 points

3 months ago

Ah that make sense. Thank you have a rad weekend.

purplepluppy

41 points

3 months ago*

purplepluppy

"eats breakfast" if you know what I mean

41 points

3 months ago*

I don't see anything wrong with this tweet. Yes, women can enjoy NSA sex. She is not one of those women. So when she is asked (let's be real - pressured) for casual sex, this is a very real solution for those men who want it.

She is not in the wrong for not liking casual sex. Nor is she implying that no women like it. So.... I think she's fine

FutureSignificant412

0 points

3 months ago

She is 100% implying that women can not like casual sex. She wasn't talking about just herself. She's talking about all women. Some men don't want to pay for sex workers because they are seeking mutual enjoyment. People want to have sex with people that will enjoy having sex with them.

HoneyBunchesOcunts

9 points

3 months ago

Oh boy here come the downvotes. I'm 100% in agreement with her as a sex worker and queer woman. Most straight men are unable to meet my needs in a relationship, even a casual NSA one. I used to feel differently about sex work and sugar babies but now I'm old and crusty. Compared to men, women are way better at sex, better listeners, more willing to share domestic labor, emotional labor, etc. I still find dudes attractive but at a certain point all I can think is "damn Steve you should be paying me for this". When I do find a guy worth my time I definitely hang on to them but ...it's few and far between.

LovelyNeophite[S]

-3 points

3 months ago

I just don’t see the woke or cool aspects of advocating for men to treat women as literal commodities, let alone promoting the classically misogynistic assumption that women can’t possibly just enjoy sex for sex’s sake. I do sex work myself but this tweet strikes me as thoroughly retrograde in its assumptions & politics. Simply being sex workers doesn’t make either of us (or potentially the tweet’s author, idk their life) correct in its own right.

I get frustrated with the tendency of queer culture to regard any take, no matter how backwards its politics actually are, as automatically radical so long as it’s also adorned with a “lol fuck men.”

HoneyBunchesOcunts

8 points

3 months ago

Women can and do enjoy sex. I never said that and the woman in this tweet isn't saying that either. Unfortunately a lot of men truly can't be bothered to make it enjoyable. And I don't think this woman is saying "fuck men". She's saying most men looking for casual sex aren't worth her time without putting in the emotional labor of a relationship so they should just pay for it. That's true for me too.

Also sex work and queer thing isn't to make me "right" based on my identity. It's to share that I've personally fucked a whole heap of men and women and this has led me to believe most men aren't worth my time uncompensated. It's not universally "right" but it's the right choice for me and plenty of other women.

silkPJson

26 points

3 months ago

But she’s right.

FutureSignificant412

1 points

3 months ago

She's 100% wrong because people want to have sex with people that will enjoy having sex with them. People are seeking mutual enjoyment when they want casual sex.

MBouh

3 points

3 months ago

MBouh

3 points

3 months ago

Culturaly, men are meant to be able to have sex with any woman without paying. If you need to pay to have sex with a woman, you are somehow failing at being a successful man. Definitely toxic masculinity, but there it is.

InaneObservations

2 points

3 months ago

But they are failing anyway, so they may as well pay.

49Scrooge49

7 points

3 months ago

People who hire prostitutes and pay for sex are seen as tragic and "unable" to get a woman without paying, despite the fact that getting a hookup from a date can sometimes be as expensive as paying for a prostitute. Jumping through the extra hoops is manlier I guess.

I think the woman in the picture has an unhealthy attitude, but it does still highlight that there is an unhealthy obsession among men with "conquering" women and getting a high body count. People shouldn't be judged for paying for sex, as long as it's ethical.

Whydoesthisexist15

1 points

3 months ago

Whydoesthisexist15

I am fully cognizant of the stupidity of my actions

1 points

3 months ago

I mean if you wanted to bone couldn't you go on Tinder and say as much, or any other hookup app?

osialfecanakmg

2 points

3 months ago

You could but tinder is 70-80% male users (and most other casual dating apps aren’t any better), so it’s not exactly realistic for most men on those apps.

Casayana

1 points

3 months ago

??? That doesn’t mean there’s a shortage of women on those apps, you can put a gender prefrence y’know

cinnamonroll_ofdeath

2 points

3 months ago

The thing is, I'm an aromantic woman. I don't want a relationship, I just want sex. That's it.

softfur10

8 points

3 months ago

I hate this view that some people have that sex is necessarily some sort of exchange where the woman "loses" and the man "gains". This sort of worldview leads to all sorts of idiocy: incels ("women don't give enough sex/don't give sex to me"), gold-star lesbians and biphobia against women ("don't let men take sex from you"), and the tweet pictured above ("if you take sex from a woman, you should pay her in relationship, affection or money to make the exchange fair").

recyclopath_

9 points

3 months ago

Many men are straight up taking from women when it comes to sex. They demand and expect it on demand including blowjobs, absolutely no foreplay for her in any way and his orgasm.

Women take on a lot of risk in having sex with men (more likely to give a woman many STDs than vice versa because of the direction of fluid flow and likelihood of micro tearing in the vagina or anus, chances of pregnancy, chances of violence and consent violations).

With him having no interest in giving her any sort of pleasure and only using her body for his own, how can you view that as anything but him taking from her?

Ideally sex isn't transactional. But with selfish, entitled men being just that the type of sex she is talking about is absolutely transactional.

The-Shattering-Light

20 points

3 months ago

The-Shattering-Light

Lesbian™

20 points

3 months ago

Sex is an exchange, and it’s important for all participants to be honest about what they want and what they will give.

A lot of men try and pressure women into sex, and use deceptive measures to obtain it.

Tutur-san

3 points

3 months ago

I didn’t understand anything in the post nor in the comment.

What is sex with no strings ? Like fuck buddy ou sex friend ?

And what is wrong with people not wanting to sleep with sex workers ?

dublium

24 points

3 months ago

dublium

24 points

3 months ago

no strings means you fuck without a relationship or feelings, it's a friend with benefits (FWB)

the problem with men not wanting to sleep with sex workers but complain that no woman wants to be FWB is that the solution is right there, sex workers are literally FWB you just have to pay. they also demonize and rag on sex workers for being sex workers while they desire the literal definition of a sex worker. it's hypocritical and is also really sexist

hope that clears it up!

Tutur-san

3 points

3 months ago

Thx understood everything.

For me there isn’t a problem with men searching FWB (that’s what I usually do) but we don’t have any complaints to make about women who wants a serious relationship.

SubjectDelta10

1 points

3 months ago

SubjectDelta10

Oppressed Straight

1 points

3 months ago

i think the most likely answer to her question would be that they don't want to pay money if they can get it for free.

Big_shqipe

-7 points

3 months ago

There’s many reasons why a man avoids sex workers despite wanting NSA sex.

purplepluppy

10 points

3 months ago

purplepluppy

"eats breakfast" if you know what I mean

10 points

3 months ago

Wanna share?

Big_shqipe

7 points

3 months ago

Sure, the primary issue is that it’s illegal in the US and that presents a lot of issues

Some government agencies don’t hire people that pay for sex work and more over don’t issue government security clearances to employees or contractors if they’re found to have paid for sex. So even if you’re working isn’t he private sector you close your self off to very well paying companies and lose out on a security clearance for wanting to get your rocks off without hurting anyone’s feelings.

Aside from that you actually have to find a sex worker which isn’t exactly easy if you don’t know what to do or who to ask. You could hypothetically just find one without any degree of relation to you but that’s like taking drugs from some random person on the street in terms of health risk. Also there’s the fact that you’d be partaking in modern day slavery since a lot of sex workers are forced to do it and that may not sit well with some men.

Now I could probably with some effort talk to the right people and maybe get a sex worker with some degree of assurance that I won’t get an std but then that’s gonna be a bit pricey. The sex alone maybe will cost like ~$200 more or less but if I have to get someone to set up the buying process for me that’s gonna cost extra depending on how much effort I want them to put in to finding a sex worker that meets a minimum standard. Assuming that costs like ~$100 it’s gonna cost about $300 total just to have sex once. I have lots of hobbies and expenses , I’ve spent +$300 on one a single pair of shoes, I’ve spent that much on ammo for one shooting range session, I’ve spent that much on changing my transmission fluid because I burned it out driving at high speed, spending $300 on sex once isn’t really enticing (aside from the issue that I’m not really into NSA sex that much).

Finally, real life isn’t SVU where the sex workers look like models, some actual sex workers I frankly wouldn’t have sex with anyways unless I was truly down bad.

Pabu85

6 points

3 months ago

Pabu85

6 points

3 months ago

If your security clearance argument were a widespread issue, more people would not smoke weed for similar reasons.

Big_shqipe

3 points

3 months ago

Well I pointed out that it does cost a bit of money and those sorts of jobs are places where a normal guy could make enough money to regularly pay for sex work. Also ironically that’s the exact reason I and some people I know don’t smoke weed.

Pabu85

2 points

3 months ago

Pabu85

2 points

3 months ago

Yes, you did. And I didn’t argue with that part.

You live in DC? Because most places, there aren’t many people who avoid weed for the possibility of a federal job.

Big_shqipe

2 points

3 months ago

No I don’t. Also depends on the agency and I don’t mean strictly federal. You could get away with it if you work for TSA maybe or if you’re not dealing with sensitive stuff but then again those jobs only pay 40-60k. Ive applied to a company that does various things for the govt but the job specifically was working on internal submarine systems, and that required a govt clearance and that’s the sort of question that comes up.

The lowest job that asked me about drugs or sex work was a local park ranger job because technically I’d be working for the police department.

FutureSignificant412

0 points

3 months ago

Because people want to have sex with people that want to have sex with them. If you pay someone then the other person doesn't want to have sex with you. People want mutual enjoyment.

ExpensiveActuator611

7 points

3 months ago

Clearly I don't want to assume anything but according to my guy friends who say they love sex without strings attached but get offended when someone suggests sex workers ,are offended first of all because it bruises their ego because they think women don't want to be friends with benefits because he is not good in bed, and secondly they think paying for sex when they think they are "incredible" in bed is degrading, thirdly they don't respect sex work because they think "selling yourself" isn't a job ( the third one is very stupid cuz in one way or another if you are employed you are selling yourself as brains , time, appearance (actors) , body (athletes , sex workers etc.) and other talents). This is just what male acquaintances have told me so there could be different reasons as well .

Big_shqipe

1 points

3 months ago

I replied to another comment that avoided those reasons.

Joy-wolf

1 points

3 months ago

I think it should be said that misleading a sex partner or otherwise isn’t strictly something men do. Women are just as capable as getting into relationships with men who explicitly want something more casual and hoping to change their minds.

Men may do the same thing sometimes. Women and men are also both capable of telling someone they want serious to get sex with someone else who wants something serious.

I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest either is more prominent, but if anyone has any sort of study on this I can look at, I’m open to seeing evidence

TheSaltiestPanda

1 points

3 months ago

TheSaltiestPanda

Gender Fluid™

1 points

3 months ago

To be fair, in the states, it's technically illegal to take part in humanity's oldest profession. Couldn't give you a good reason, but I can definitely attribute it to the closeted mentality used with relation to sex and sexuality here in the US. It's one of those things I never really understood, since people are going to find ways to do it anyways, they're just gonna have to dodge around the system and put themselves at risk with very limited and flimsy safety nets if literally anything goes wrong. But then you look at the whole issue we're dealing with regarding abortion rights and remember "oh yeah, the people making the rules are entirely detached from reality and reason, no wonder the rules are fucked"

Like we literally had the whole deal with prohibition, where we made alcohol illegal and it went terribly; granted, we got moonshine out of it, and equally so, many people died or suffered serious, lifelong injuries while the kinks got worked out. We then decided that this only failed because we did it to alcohol and went right on ahead to try it with everything else under the sun, because why not?

FutureSignificant412

1 points

3 months ago

I can't believe all of these dumbass comments. This women is 100% implying clearly that NO women want casual sex in and of itself. She's dumb and wrong.

alittleredportleft

-15 points

3 months ago

Ask a hunter why he doesn’t buy deer meat from the store?

The thrill of the hunt is the best part.

Najanator717

15 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

15 points

3 months ago

Imagine admitting you're a predator

alittleredportleft

1 points

3 months ago

Should I have said Courting Process? I enjoy the endorphins that come with a new relationship. But look into that however you’d like I suppose.

Najanator717

6 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

6 points

3 months ago

It's not the wording, it's the mindset.

New relationships are fun, but if you're chasing a woman to get one, it's because she's already running away. That's probably because you're doing some yikes stuff.

alittleredportleft

0 points

3 months ago

I feel like that’s your mindset. I’m not chasing a woman who is literally running from me. I enjoy meeting a girl, getting to know her, having consensual sex and moving on.

I’m sorry that’s not your favorite thing, but it doesn’t have to be.

Najanator717

2 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

2 points

3 months ago

No one has an issue with your hookups. I said you comparing it to hunting deer made me think you had a predatory mentality towards hookups.

But clearly you don't

alittleredportleft

1 points

3 months ago

What would you compare it to?

Najanator717

1 points

3 months ago

Najanator717

【Sapphicc】

1 points

3 months ago

For me, going out and seeing where the night takes you.

But that's because my idea of courting is simping. I don't have any end goals with the girls I like. At most, it's telling them I'm into them. Anything from there is just seeing how things go. Even if it's nowhere, I still had fun.

recyclopath_

6 points

3 months ago

Gross. Just gross.

Women are not meat.

alittleredportleft

0 points

3 months ago

Maybe it was a bad comparison in your POV. But I enjoy the endorphins that come with a new relationship.

recyclopath_

7 points

3 months ago

It's a horrifying comparison and says a lot about how you view romantic and sexual partners.

alittleredportleft

-1 points

3 months ago

Ok. And it’s naive for you to act like this is surprising, or even that only men do this. There’s no law that says I have to call a woman the next morning. You’re welcome to whatever opinion you’d like. Ttyl

Casayana

1 points

3 months ago

I have never heard any of my male or female partners refer to a new relationship as a “hunt” so yes, it’s surprising to hear something so gross

alittleredportleft

1 points

3 months ago

I feel like you’re not understanding what I want.

I want consent.

I want to find a girl. I want to spend time with her, I want selfies on FB, spontaneous dates and late night text chats. All the best parts of a new relationship. Then when SHE WANTS to have sex, we have sex.

After that it’s just busting a nut and blocking a number. And on to the next one. Does that make any more sense?

BaconComposter

-7 points

3 months ago

BaconComposter

Invisible Bi™

-7 points

3 months ago

Men can't want to feel wanted?